TwistedCustoms Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 With all the ASOs we see here it's a treat for those who know the difference to get to chuckle at a "forge shaped object". For the uninitiated such as MasterFabPro it is potentially fatal. What a joke. At least an image of the "device" made it here so it can be subjected to the scrutiny of knowledgeable smiths for the benefit of the unsuspecting newbs who may be considering purchasing one of these widow makers. Forged in Fire and other cable shows have done our community a service, and a disservice. A service in that they have brought attention to what we do to lots of people who may have otherwise never had any exposure to smithing. A disservice in that along with all the unqualified people who have never lit a fire and want to make swords from day one, we have to watch the predators/hacks who have never done any forging attempt to scam people out of their money buy selling them poorly designed, poorly made dangerous equipment. 40 years experience and you don't see anything wrong with that burner MasterFabPro? Slow learner indeed. Whoever put that time bomb together has NEVER worked in a Smithy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Hey, even I have a 100% positive rating on eBay. (On the other hand, I’ve only sold one thing, and the guy liked it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Again folks seem to be confusing popularity with quality. The market is full of very popular items that are not good for people---look at fast food! I'd much more trusting if an item only had a handful of positive reviews but by experts in the field and safety. (Just like expert machinists and welders can destroy the usability of an anvil because they are not experts in anvils; you could be a great smith and not aware of some of the side issues.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 The web handle he's using is presumptuous as well. I earned my first welding certification in '71 and two more in rapid order. Learned fabrication in school and on jobs. So YES, by your standards I'm qualified to judge your . . . stuff. I'm calling you out on it. Unsafe on many counts. Improper propane handling. Un-encapsulated ceramic fiber breathing hazard. I don't see ANY propane rated supply components beyond the regulator. This is strong evidence of a lack of knowledge or understanding of just what propane is and how dangerous it is. The cavalier attitude you show regarding ceramic blanket on your web site is another example of a lack of knowledge and disdain for safety. What I really don't understand about "builders" like this one is why they can't get a T burner right, I put the general design in the public domain years ago. The correct ratios and why they work, how to get max performance fro plumbing parts. And you see burners like this being sold. Sure you can MAKE it work, even get a decent air fuel ratio. To do it though it takes an undersized jet, 0.030" max and high pressure. The undersized air intake ports and WAY too long burner tube is telling me that even if it's tuned the performance is maybe 70% what mine puts out. The flame is also traveling a lot faster and loses performance as well. Last Glenn said Iforge membership exceeded 45,000 around the world and climbing daily. With 5,000 "happy" customers you'd think there were a couple members, even if there a more realistic couple hundred I'm betting we have a few in the gang. Anyone out there own one of these forges like to comment? Please? If I'm wrong about Master fab pro's product I'm okay with admitting to it and apologizing. Until I see evidence these aren't dangerous devices I'll stand on my evaluation of them and put my experience on the line. 50 some years a fabricator and more than 30 making naturally aspirated burners. Still working on getting the forges right though, every single one can use improvement, especially where using the multiple orifice NA burners are concerned. So yes, I stand behind calling your burners poor copies, your propane handling dangerous in the extreme and your use of ceramic blanked slip shod and dangerous. My very first propane forge would beat yours on all counts except weight, it's way too heavy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 I found the air hose he appears to be using on the Home Depot sight. It does not say anything about it being approved for propane either. Product Overview The light weight of this polyurethane hose makes it ideal for applications where dragging a heavy hose is an issue like roofing. The smooth, non-marring finish also makes it ideal for indoor trim work where scratching surfaces could create damage. Poly hose has very good cold weather flexibility. Bend restrictors reduce kinking and increase the life of the hose. End fittings are field repairable, so with a knife and two wrenches a quick repair can be made to the hose if damaged. 300 psi Work Pressure. 100 ft. long with 1/4 in. NPT end fittings. 4 Year Warranty. 1/4 in. male NPT field-repairable fittings 300 psi working pressure Smooth finish does not mar surfaces Light weight for less user fatigue Very good cold weather flexibility Resists kinking under pressure Ideal for roofing, flooring, and indoor jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 And for those not in the loop, slag is a lawyer, so it’s Mr. Slag Esq. to you rabble! Iforgeiron.com is not your run or the mill forum, smiths share there experience and skills freely here, we don’t tolerate trolls (tho curmudgeons are welcome) and we don’t alow the passing off of poor and unsafe practice as gospel. Now if the manufacture would like to learn how to elivate his products from dangerous and poorly designed (tho I admit your product looks very clean, you did a good job fabricating an inferior design) I invite you to read the burner 101 and forge 101 threads. There is a masters degree of information there. And I know Jerry, Mike and others who are honest to goodness experts in this will help you upgrade to a safe efferent product (and with your fabrication skills a clean looking one as well) We are not an exclusive club, all who want to learn and contribute are welcome (Glenn sets an amazingly high bar for this community and we try not to disappoint him) you will see some jokeing and teasing (my spelling and adaptive text as an example) we aren’t all serious and some one will step up to help, and some one else will fact check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 The manufacturer of this forge product is welcome to prove that this thread is wrong by providing details of the individual components and that the individual components are rated for use with propane. Or other gasses that could be used in the operation of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Maybe it's just in this part of the world(though i doubt it) but hose for propane/LPG/natural gas is supposed to be ORANGE I am aware that "universal" rules aren't always applicable in the USA but the rest of the world seems to manage . Those quick couplers sure look like "el. cheapo" air units. So all this shows is.......YOU CAN LEAD A MAN TO KNOWLEDGE, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM THINK! I think Steve called it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just a quick internet search brought up propane rated hose and quick disconnects. It's readily available so why you would use non propane rated parts on something you are selling is just stupid. If you want to risk your own safety fine but to profit from risking an unknowledgable buyers safety is just criminal and asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 7:50 PM, MasterFabPro said: he has custom made over 5000 forges MasterFabPro a.k.a "Chip" - That would be one forge per day, EVERY day, including Christmas and Thanksgiving without break for over 13 years. I seriously doubt your statement. And that puts everything else you've claimed in doubt as well. Frankly, if someone is promoting and selling dangerous products, I will be MORE than happy to destroy his livelihood and not even think twice about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Tech support at Husky said the Husky 1/4 in. x 100 ft. Polyurethane Air Hose pictured above, IS NOT rated for propane. The standard air hose fittings used with that blue polyurethane hose is are not rated for propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The hose fittings pictured on his burners have to be regular old airline fittings as they look Nothing like any of the propane rated fittings I found online. as Ian mentioned they look like the cheapy ones at that. Another thing to mention is the time period that you have to leave feedback on eBay. After longer term use you are stuck with what you have and can't go back mention bad results with a product. ( been a little while since I used eBay but that's how it was. Has that changed? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Daswulf said: Just a quick internet search brought up propane rated hose and quick disconnects. It's readily available so why you would use non propane rated parts on something you are selling is just stupid. If you want to risk your own safety fine but to profit from risking an unknowledgable buyers safety is just criminal and asking for trouble. Why? compressed air connectors are about $3.00 a set. Propane connectors are about $46.00. Its the same reasoning for using the type hose being used. Not only do you not use air hose for Propane, you do not use Oxy/ace hose for Propane. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It's what Glenn said.. He is more then welcome to come here and prove his use of parts and their ratings but that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 6 hours ago, ianinsa said: YOU CAN LEAD A MAN TO KNOWLEDGE, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM THINK! Oh, that was good; snarky enough for a Brit!!! I loved it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I'd like to give Chip the benefit of the doubt and not attribute his product quality to greed or gross negligence. The benefit being ignorance and not thinking it matters. Dunning and Kruger explains dangerous actions of this kind. Like I say benefit of the doubt and all. Misrepresenting his production numbers and the "happiness" of his customers sure makes it hard though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I could deffinately attribute the setup to ignorance of the safety of it. I sure hope he hasn't sold many if any. For both sides. I could see how someone without more knowledge could build something like that, get it to work thinking it's ok and then make it to sell. But with more knowledge we know how dangerous it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 There is a large difference between solid and gas fuels. There is even differences between the different gas fuels. For instance, Ox/Ac hoses are different from propane hoses and you should choose the correct hose for the gas being used. They are not interchangeable. If a little solid fuel leaks out of the forge, it spills onto the ground. It may set the grass or leaves on fire. If it is attended to quickly, the fire can be controlled easily. If gas fuel leaks out of the bottle, tank, or out of the tubing or fittings, it also spills onto the ground as propane is heavier than air. It can be exciting if the fuel ignites and engulfs the hose, fittings, or tank, in flame. Otherwise the fuel naturally seeks a low spot and collects. Once the fuel ignites the flame will follow and ignite all the fuel available. If the burning fuel pressurizes beyond the environment it is contained within, you have an explosion. You sometimes experience this over pressurization when lighting a gas forge and get that whoomp sound when the fuel ignites. We do not want to see anyone hurt, so we caution folks when we see a problem. It is not telling them not to do something. We inform them that there are dangers involved and they could hurt themselves or hurt others. Their choice comes with the responsibility. The site pushes safety because you can not know all the dangers from the beginning. You must learn to work with the materials you choose, and learn to do it safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Mild for a Afrikaner tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 4/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, Charles R. Stevens said: Mild for a Afrikaner tho... Calling names is not allowed on this site...... though some of my best friends are of the Afrikaans persuasion and i can pass for one i'm totally fluent despite being a true born pom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 My oppoligies master Ian, lol. Being acualy a desert rat, I pass fairly well for a redneck myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerMonkey Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 ahem... Sir... I am a red necked desert rat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 HM, are you perhaps a Texan?! And if their is any confusion for us non- Aussie English speakers, “Pom” is an immigrant, mor precisely an English Immigrant as they turn “red as a pomagranit” in the Australian sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerMonkey Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Ha, no... not a Texan. At least not by birth. But I lived in Brenham for a while back in the 70's, and a short stint in Houston too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Figured that those Midwest southerners were always confused as to what was the Southwest was, perhaps you were one of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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