How To Forge a Blacksmith Twist Handle (Basket)

[jlpservicesinc]

 

[HammerMonkey]

I’m going to try this... after I watch the video 1 or 8 more times... Nicely done,as always jlp!

[jlpservicesinc]

Thanks Shady McGrady. There are extra "Cautions" in the description section on YouTube at the pull down tab..

I made a few mistakes which I could get away with..  I meant to post a blurb under the video here but posted it before seeing the pillow..

I'll post them now:

"How To" on setting up, scarfing,  combining all the pieces and then the way to get the heat up to hammer weld a Blacksmith twist Basket..

A few things to note: 
1,The length I used for the handle rods was 8" based on Lap welds.. I forgot this weld needs less material so 6-6.5" will work for the handle..  I also finished the finial after the basket which is way hard..
2.  Take a very slow heat in a loose fire.. Place near top of fire and let the heat come up to it.. apply air slowly, every once in awhile try to wiggle/turn it to and froe with just the finger tips,  the shaft.. you will feel it stick (the color of the fire will turn more yellow around the same time).
3. Don't mash the steel when you take it out for welding.. Very light blows till the welds are fully tacked..
4. If you don't feel it stick in the fire. and you don't see it weld at the anvil. Stop hitting it right away.. it's not hot enough..
5. Finish off the finial before opening the basket.. I could have done a mushroom cap but I wanted it round..

I don't think this technique will work very well in gas forges unless the handle rods are big enough as there is no way to control where the heat is being applied accurately..   So with that in mind this skill set is recommended for those that use coal or coke forges, though I am sure with larger diameter rods it could be applied just as well in a gas forge..

 

[HammerMonkey]

(***Dumb question alert***) You mentioned coke/coal forges in the video as well. But you did not mention lump charcoal specifically. My solid fuel forge burns lump charcoal, but I can pretty easily modify it so it burns coal.. Would switching to coal be necessary? Or recommended? I haven’t used it much as I do most of my work with my propane forge. But I have done some simple welding with the solid fuel forge configured for lump charcoal, and it works very well so far.

i need to go back and watch carefully. I was a little unclear about the first part. It was a little dark on my small tablet screen, and hard to see. The 1/4 rod filler piece does not extend flush with the 1/8 rods, right? Otherwise they would weld to the filler rod, yes? If this is correct, how far back from the ends of the 1/8 rods does the 1/4 rod stop? Also, if I followed correctly, are the ends of the 1/8 rods unsupported at the point of the actual weld? 

On edit: oops, I missed the end filler rod completely... that makes sense now.

 

I really like the format of the 2 perspective, screen in screen. I just keep forgetting to look at the small screen and sometimes miss a better view of a certain step. I need to get some 3D glasses so I can check out those videos of yours as well.

thanks again jlp!

[JustAnotherViking]

I didn't get a chance to try this today, instead i was making some chain links, but I will definitely give it a try soon. 

I was advised today that one of the most overlooked part of fire welding is the actual fire. Most people demonstrating or skilled in welding just do it without thinking to mention the fire itself. 

Keep it clean, hot, and piled up high. 

The deeper you stick the work, the closer it is to the blower, and you get more oxidisation, making for a dirtier weld. 

Keep the fire high, and the piece high, and you'll be more successful. 

Under the right fire conditions, even high carbon can be done flux free. 

[jlpservicesinc]

8 hours ago, Shady McGrady said:

(***Dumb question alert***) You mentioned coke/coal forges in the video as well. But you did not mention lump charcoal specifically. My solid fuel forge burns lump charcoal, but I can pretty easily modify it so it burns coal.. Would switching to coal be necessary? Or recommended? I haven’t used it much as I do most of my work with my propane forge. But I have done some simple welding with the solid fuel forge configured for lump charcoal, and it works very well so far.

i need to go back and watch carefully. I was a little unclear about the first part. It was a little dark on my small tablet screen, and hard to see. The 1/4 rod filler piece does not extend flush with the 1/8 rods, right? Otherwise they would weld to the filler rod, yes? If this is correct, how far back from the ends of the 1/8 rods does the 1/4 rod stop? Also, if I followed correctly, are the ends of the 1/8 rods unsupported at the point of the actual weld? 

On edit: oops, I missed the end filler rod completely... that makes sense now.

 

I really like the format of the 2 perspective, screen in screen. I just keep forgetting to look at the small screen and sometimes miss a better view of a certain step. I need to get some 3D glasses so I can check out those videos of yours as well.

thanks again jlp!

It's not dumb at all..   I mentioned coal and coke forges, but charcoal forges are excellent..  I use a soft coal forge so it was just this coming to mind first.. I used charcoal in the way past And love it the best, but wasn't setup to make my own and back in the late 80's lump charcoal was 2X more expensive than soft coal...  

Anyhow, charcoal works very well and just be sure to keep your air blast down and keep a tight fire vs a loose one with Coal/coke..   Also chop your pieces a little smaller so the fire is more concentrated ..    You are looking to heat only the area you want to weld.. 

And just to clarify..   There is a section of 1/4" round about 2" long that goes into the end as the filler piece on the first end weld of the bundle..  I had thought I had shown me putting it into the bundle just before setting the rods vertical on the anvil but even on a 2nd run through it was barely visible.. here is where it gets put into the bottom of the bundle..  https://youtu.be/dBtnzbdZ93g?t=8m25s

The camera are set to focus just above the anvil so on the other shots they are a little blurry..  I might start filming with a prime lens..  The Picture in Picture is a great format but it does take a bit of stopping rewinding and playing again for that second view..  I watch the videos on a 55" Plasma for the final run before posting public and I had to edit the footage 2X to get the corrected as on my lap top the video looks dark but on the TV it was overly bright.. 

the 3D vid's are my favorties but some of the PIP are tough on the eyes when looking at the smaller picture as the focal length is not the same as the larger screen..  I haven't figured out how to fix this..   I have started to run 5 cameras to catch each view but really I just like to shoot and forge.. 

Ok..  Enough about filming.. 

for the 2nd welding of the shaft to handle bundle, Using your charcoal forge, break up the lumps slightly so they are about acorn in size,  build a decent sized fire and then pull the top off.  Put the shaft with the  bundle on it into where the heart of the fire will come up.. Then put the charcoal back on top with about 2" over the weld area.. Then start cranking the blower slowly..  You will see the flame color go from the blue  to a Blue yellow and then to yellow in the center with blue on the very edges..  This should be right about welding temp of the steel.. 
Slow on the air.. You will need a swage or swage block to keep the rods together as they are welded.. 

Shoot over more questions if you want.. Happy to help.. 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

10 hours ago, JustAnotherViking said:

I didn't get a chance to try this today, instead i was making some chain links, but I will definitely give it a try soon. 

I was advised today that one of the most overlooked part of fire welding is the actual fire. Most people demonstrating or skilled in welding just do it without thinking to mention the fire itself. 

Keep it clean, hot, and piled up high. 

The deeper you stick the work, the closer it is to the blower, and you get more oxidisation, making for a dirtier weld. 

Keep the fire high, and the piece high, and you'll be more successful. 

Under the right fire conditions, even high carbon can be done flux free. 

Lets see..     While yes you can do anything you want and it's a neat skill set to have in the bag of tricks. I use flux each and every time even on wrought iron..  It's not worth my time or effort not to use flux..       There is a hard way, a medium way and an easy way..     All the information has been presented and each person can choose just what or how they want to approach this kind of thing.. 

This technique completely removes the problem of having to take two separate metal pieces and get them to the correct temperate and then line them up for welding..  But with that said, it is not a no brainer,  kind of deal...  One has to be sensitive with what the fire is doing.. And with unevenly sized pieces it get more difficult to do a good weld with no flux.. 

Fire managment is a skill set all it's own when it comes to the forge and while there are a lot of people on Youtube promoting  different methods such as lean fires (small) and or building large fires for welding (with commercial coke it's needed to get the heat to rise into it) .. The fire should represent what it is you are actually doing..   

The metal here is small in size so the fire is pretty small and while you don't want to thrust metal into the oxidizing zone of the fire a lot of the character of the fire is based on how much air blast is given to it. Thus changing zones from oxidizing, to neutral to carbonizing.. This is all based on how much air you are pumping in...  With this technique there is nearly no coke on top of the metal itself.. You can see the bar in the fire as it's coming up to welding temperature in the video segment here:https://youtu.be/dBtnzbdZ93g?t=16m35s

You want to have the fire very light on top so you can remove the shaft/bundle without having it come off in the fire or bending it terribly.. If you are using 1/4" or 6mm it's super easy and one can be pretty sloppy as the bars won't bend on their own weight..  

The whole concept of building a large fire to limit O2 from attacking the steel while welding can be used to good merit but in this case it's almost the opposite.. you want a very light top to the fire and regulate air flow so you don't put in excessive oxygen..  Let the heat come up slowly and penetrate the steel to the core.. Keep the top of the fire light but lively.. 

JustAnotherViking - How'd the chain come out?? 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

JustAnotherViking -

The answer for the forge welding fire with a larger, deeper fire came about as a simple way to tell someone a global answer that has become widely accepted.. 

Forge welding in a shallow open fire is possible  as is a closed top, hollow fire..  Nearly all of it has to do with the person who is running the fire and his or her experience level for a given task at hand..  

I am always looking at the fire in a 15 to 30min or longer interval of time, where I need the fire to be in the future for a given forging operation.. If I am making tongs as an example.. I know that in 15 minutes from when I started I need a reserve of coke ready to be entered into the fire by the second welding heat..  This means I start banking green coal so it has a chance to coke before I need it...  and it takes about 15minutes to go from green to coke.. 

[JustAnotherViking]

Many thanks for taking the time pass along that info jlpservicesinc.

The guy demonstrating to me yesterday trained in England, and is from the school of no flux needed, but your point is very valid. Why make it harder on yourself by not using it. 

We're fortunate to have commercially manufactured forges and farriers coal, so at least that part remains consistent for practice. 

The chain links went pretty well considering I hasn't tried before. I now have two sets of three links. Not the prettiest, but it's a starting point. They stuck together so I'll call it a win for now. 

[jlpservicesinc]

JustAnotherViking - You are very welcome..  I am open to any fielded questions and these days I am also open to a question and then a Video "How To" On the subject..

There is a lot of questions being left un answered  and at this point I am trying to fill in this void or lack of information in a blood and guts kind of way or core skill sets..     Each video is just a starting point for those who take on the challenge of using the videos to produce items from thus gaining in a skill set they might not have looked at before..

Have you had a chance to look at the video "How to" on chain making?  If not you might find some tidbits in that video as well..

[JustAnotherViking]

I hadn't realised you had done one, so i'll get to watching it soon.
I only subscribed to your channel the other day, so I have a fair bit of catching up to do. Plenty of content to get through.

Thanks again

[jlpservicesinc]

@JustAnotherViking Thanks for subscribing..  And yes there are a whole bunch of videos..