Shalev Zohar

Cutting car springs - do not when not clamped!

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As it was under no external stress (away from car) I thought the spring was safe to cut out of the piston (or more so didn't think at all), turns out the piston held it under pressure, long story short my disc went flying in a boom.

Hold it with some clamps.

Or, tell me your stories to make me feel less like an idiot.

 

(I'm new to this forum, please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong)

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Welcome to the to the forum. I will be the first probably not the only person to encourage you to put your location in your profile settings. 

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(Hope I'm replying correctly)

I've read about it, I live in Israel and there are about 2 and a half smiths in the whole country, and I already know where they are, but I'll do it soon, just setting up some things first.

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Welcome aboard Shalev, glad to have you. We have a couple few members in Israel, you're not really alone. Honest. 

That isn't a car spring, it's a STRUT!!! :o Those things are extremely dangerous to dismantle without the proper tools let alone cut. You're lucky you weren't injured or even killed. From now on take a look in a parts or better a repair manual to see what you're dealing with before trying to take or cut things apart. 

Once you have some experience and knowledge under your belt you'll be better able to evaluate what you found. Till then better safe than sorry. 

Seriously you lucked out BIG TIME! Struts have a habit of coming apart like a bomb. Same story with truck air brake cans. There is a LOT of pressure contained in the things just waiting to be released.

Frosty The Lucky.

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The spring on the strut is under pressure (compression) and will release all that pressure (compression) at the first opportunity. Garages have a tool that will compress the spring so the strut can be disassembled safely. DO NOT mess with any coil spring that is not free and a separated from any and all other components or assembly.

That is only half the danger. The hydraulic shocks in the struts can be full of oil that is under pressure on the inside of the shock. If you are after the hydraulic piston rod, it is chrome plated which can be a hazard from the chrome. This goes for the regular shock absorbents also.

IForgeIron pushes safety and will step up and warn people of dangerous situations. It is not a personal attack, it is trying to save them from harm or hurting others. Glad you survived. 

Leaf springs are also under a LOT of pressure and you should be very careful when removing the collars or keepers holding the assembly together. 

 

5 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

there are about 2 and a half smiths in the whole country

There are many blacksmiths in Israel that we know about, and many blacksmiths from your country are members of the site.

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5 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

I live in Israel and there are about 2 and a half smiths in the whole country, and I already know where they are

Make that 2 - 3/4.

Welcome.

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8 hours ago, Glenn said:

DO NOT mess with any coil spring that is not free and a separated from any and all other components or assembly.

Not gonna do it again anytime soon, but you're overestimating the risk, I could be badly injured, yet unless it shot a knife into my eye I can't see how it would kill me. I love my fingers though, and now I don't need anymore spring... As I said I won't do it again and this topic is meant to warn others (though it seems like everybody already knows)

The leaf spring was properly clamped of course, and it had less pressure, also the flat surface and shorter movement up made it easier to dismantle, I'm going to use that rather than coil from now on, the metal shape is also much more compatible with forging.

8 hours ago, Glenn said:

There are many blacksmiths in Israel that we know about, and many blacksmiths from your country are members of the site.

It was kind of a joke, my forge is a coated grill connected to a vaccuum cleaner (that can actually melt steel but that doesn't matter) and I have no anvil, so I've been looking a lot for blacksmiths in my area who's shops I could raid but I found only industrial metal workers who focus on houses and stuff I don't need. I used "blacksmiths" as the more traditional ones, and those stack in the north, I've heard of about four workshops.

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Since we even know of a school for smithing in Israel, the joke rather made you look uninformed and so you will probably get more posts based on you being an uninformed individual.  When I recently changed my front shocks about 1/2 the instruction sheet was devoted to instructions on how to safely deal with strut and air shock disposal; amusing in that my old pickup has neither.

Being in Israel; keep your eyes open for old tank penetrator rods, Uri Hofi saya they make excellent drifts when found in the desert and reworked.

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4 hours ago, lyuv said:

Make that 2 - 3/4.

Welcome.

If you're a fourth then I'm a 1/16, only made a handful of tools yet, I'll be trying to make a sword soon which is why I'm here.

I live around jerusalem and look for people who would let me work in their shop, tel aviv works too.

Looking at the folks in givatayim (Rodich and Atar) - do you know them?

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I have personally seen springs break arms and legs. If hit in the chest or head it could cause severe internal damage, concussions, and lead to death. I have also seen springs shoot straight through the top side of cars and even leave dents in cement. If anything frosty is under estimating the damage they can cause.

I have also seen pressurized fluids knock people out and send them flying 15 feet. Never, ever under estimate the dangers of anything under pressure. If you don't understand the dangers it is always best to consult a professional. Every mechanic I know, or have known, would gladly inform you of the dangers free of charge.

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3 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

Not gonna do it again anytime soon, but you're overestimating the risk, I could be badly injured, yet unless it shot a knife into my eye I can't see how it would kill me.

When the spring quickly releases all the stored energy, nothing in the way is safe. Blunt force trauma may or may not kill you, but can cause severe damage that can take a long time to heal.  One spring is not worth getting injured. You can purchase a brand new spring for less than the cost of hospital bills. 

Overestimating the risk only applies when things do not go honorably wrong.  We caution everyone about the dangers so, even a year or more from now,  someone reading the post will be alerted to the danger.

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4 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

have no anvil

Keep in mind that you don’t need an “anvil” to forge. Lots of perfectly acceptable alternatives, if you open your mind to things that aren’t classic English/German/French anvils. Check out some things other folks here have done:

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/52308-a-collection-of-improvised-anvils/

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You have no anvil?  I am *shocked*; I thought israel had forklifts, bulldozers, tanks, and a lot of other heavy items made of pieces  that would make perfectly good anvils.

Please remember to not confuse not having a london pattern anvil with not having an anvil of a type that has been around for several thousand years longer than the London pattern ones have been.

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No piece of metal is worth losing your life.  My brother in law is a mechanic and he's seen struts shoot across the whole shop and through the wall - dangerous as heck and not worth it.  Work smarter not harder, find an auto repair shop and see if they will let you pay for scrap leaf springs, coil springs, etc. that you can just pick out of a bin.  I wish you luck and stay safe over there.

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Shalev: That you can't see as how losing control of a strut could kill you only points out how little you know about struts. Guys in well and properly equipped shops have been killed by struts. Even the proper compression tools aren't infallable, nothing's perfect. 

You might wish to hold off making jokes until you've gained some knowledge and experience. You don't really want to be the joke do you?

Frosty The Lucky.

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10 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

, but you're overestimating the risk, I could be badly injured, yet unless it shot a knife into my eye I can't see how it would kill me.

Late to this show but they are very right about the dangers of cutting the spring Or top bolt on a strut assembly. There is a Lot of stored energy that will hurt or kill you. Sure you lucked out and only broke your cut off wheel. Other situations can Kill. 

Not Just "clamps" but proper clamps and tools and done right will get springs off of struts safely ( it's still scary at that) It's so inexpensive comparatively to ask a mechanic with the right tools to separate them. 

As has been said, safety is pushed here. It's for good reason. We want people to succeed. Just not succeeding in getting a Darwin Award. 

I have mentioned about the dangers of struts before when people have posted about them and even if you got what you needed without harm, things could have gone worse ( you are lucky) and I will continue to post about it. 

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5 hours ago, Frosty said:

Shalev: That you can't see as how losing control of a strut could kill you only points out how little you know about struts. Guys in well and properly equipped shops have been killed by struts. Even the proper compression tools aren't infallable, nothing's perfect. 

You might wish to hold off making jokes until you've gained some knowledge and experience. You don't really want to be the joke do you?

Frosty The Lucky.

Shalev: That you can't see as how losing control of a strut could kill you only points out how little you know about struts. Guys in well and properly equipped shops have been killed by struts.

I don't know anything about struts other than general parts and purpose, but by what you're saying it seems like I had a small less harmful one. It released less than 10 centimeters and the spring looks smaller than others, although it released at once its full power it didn't even jump. I may have made jokes but I'm dead serious when I say I'm not messing with struts and haven't since when it happened a year ago, bashing me has no good outcome.

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On 3/11/2018 at 8:05 PM, MC Hammer said:

No piece of metal is worth losing your life. I wish you luck and stay safe over there.

Thanks, will do my best, and if I'd known it was under pressure I wouldn't have tried obviously.

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12 hours ago, JHCC said:

Keep in mind that you don’t need an “anvil” to forge. Lots of perfectly acceptable alternatives, if you open your mind to things that aren’t classic English/German/French anvils. Check out some things other folks here have done:

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/52308-a-collection-of-improvised-anvils/

For sure, heck, I used stone, iron weights and then construction rails, they are good, but I'd like to step up my game (first sword, and a Rapier nonetheless) and what I have just won't do anymore. 

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20 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

You have no anvil?  I am *shocked*; I thought israel had forklifts, bulldozers, tanks, and a lot of other heavy items made of pieces  that would make perfectly good anvils.

Please remember to not confuse not having a london pattern anvil with not having an anvil of a type that has been around for several thousand years longer than the London pattern ones have been.

I don't own any tank.

Seriously though, I have a makeshift anvil, but it's not hardened and I need a horn for what I'm planning to do (a first sword, and a Rapier nonetheless). I know I don't need any professional tools to make great things but I need to step up my game because I spend 90% of the time just messing with the tools.

The anvil is actually not a big concern of mine at all, I first need something better than a 180w bench grinder and a long forge, I just tried to roughly show what I've got.

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13 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

I need a horn for what I'm planning to do (a first sword, and a Rapier nonetheless).

Swordsmiths were making all manner of blades long before the anvil horn was invented, even rapiers. Japanese swordsmiths still use block anvils almost exclusively. What do you need the horn for?

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Take a class or two and start making things within your skill sets. If you spend 90% of your time just messing with the tools then you don't know enough about them or the craft to be thinking about blades let alone swords.

Don't feel lonely though, you aren't the first teenager to want to jump into blacksmithing by making swords. We hear it all the time. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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6 hours ago, Shalev Zohar said:

I need a horn for what I'm planning to do (a first sword, and a Rapier nonetheless).

Sword ?  < faint >

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Just don't fall on the anvil's horn in your swoon Steve! :o

I don't get the, "and a Rapier nonetheless," thing. We don't really talk like that in America do we Steve?

Frosty The Lucky.

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11 hours ago, JHCC said:

What do you need the horn for?

All the hilt, generally more control in bending metal, I have many other projects that include bending bars. I could use tubes in a vice to round around but a horn will be much more comfortable, and as I said an anvil is not my greatest concern.

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