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I Forge Iron

break drum forge has failed.


AndrewB

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  So I am at a point where I'm just ready to completely give up.  After I picked up my coal this morning and tongs I came home and set up my break drum forge.  The air supply was fairly decent.  I don't know if I just used too much coal or what not.  But basically I've seen a lot of youtube videos on how to start a coal fire forge.  I mean even I could figure this out.  Should be fairly simple right.  Figuratively speaking.  How ever, this morning when I tried to light it.  To no avail it failed me.  So I went to the next step.  I used a chunk of wood and some paper with a bit of lighter fluid.  To that it simply just did not want to ignite.  Before you jump to any conclusions yes I did put an air blast to it, while the wood was burning in a mix the coal.  My coal is andecite or how ever you spell that.  So as of right now I am just going to step back wait a while maybe it will light for me when it is warmer.  Who knows.  At this point I am completely frustrated.  I didn't throw the forge like I do my keyboard when I get mad at my gaming.  So I just calmly set everything aside I doused the coal with water to make sure it wouldn't ignite on me when I came inside.  So if anybody has any thoughts on this it would be a good deal.  Yes I've read everything I could read in the forums as well.  So long story short, my problem is I couldn't get the danged thing light and running.  I would have loved to been outside pounding on some metal.   (Yes I filled the break drum with coal, which was probably dumb to do but I did it.)  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Anthracite coal Is hard to get started but "too much coal" doesn't stop it from burning, lack of airflow or getting a starter fire would. With anthracite coal you'll need to start a fire with some paper and kindling first or charcoal, get that going, start the air lower and build it up as you go and start adding some coal to it then more once that starts going. Then as long as it's burning it wouldn't matter how much coal is on the pile but it would just waste coal. 

 

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I'd start with a good thick bed of hot wood coals and then turning the air on lightly start sprinkling the coal on it increasing the air as you see it catching till you get a good amount of the coal burning and add more coal and more air.

Anthracite is a pain to start though; so it's like you started juggling with 4 balls, two fish and a flaming torch instead of 3 balls.  Have you tried just plain lump charcoal for a forge fuel to get used to forging?

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Well charcoal I have about 100 lbs of Kingsford, I know I shouldn't use Kingsford but if it gets it going would that be an option?  Maybe I should have just stuck it out a bit longer instead of getting frustrated with it.  I will give it another go this afternoon.  The airflow seems a bit weak going into the fire bowl, so I may need to make some changes.  I'm not quite sure my break drum forge will work the way I currently have it set up.  How ever if it will work just enough for me to get started for now, I'll be happy.  How hot should the anthracite coal get once it gets going?

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Kingsford is a mix of coal, charcoal, sawdust and clay. And tho it might get the hard coal to light, I would suggest using kindling and just start a small wood fire, nurse it a bit with some larger fuel and then start bringing in the hard coal from the sides. As the wood converts to coals you can increase the air. 

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Kingsford is a brand, not a type of charcoal; if I recall correctly, they make about half a dozen different kinds. Briquettes can be made to work, but it's not going to work well. 

Weak airflow is actually good when you're using charcoal. Too strong a blast actually blows the heat right out of the forge, and you end up with lots of sparks and ash, but not much heat in your workpiece.

One thing you might consider is getting a nice fire of briquettes (say, 6-8 of them) going, and then using that to get your anthracite started. 

5 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:
31 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

How hot should the anthracite coal get once it gets going?

hot enough to burn up steel.

No, that's how hot anthracite can get, not how hot it should get. Like any forge fire, it should be hot enough to get your piece to the appropriate working temperature. Anthracite can handle the full range from much too cool to much too hot; your desired working temperature will be somewhere in between.

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Anthracite also needs a good constant air supply to keep it going. Unlike bituminous where you can bank it kill the air and walk away for a bit, anthracite needs ( even if low) a constant air blast to keep going. I know a few who successfully use anthracite coal in the forge. So it is usable. Just a bit more work. My friend starts his with a lump charcoal starter fire. He had trouble getting it started the first go as well till he figured it out, but he is also using a " known to work" forge design. 

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Stick with it. I've tried to cut corners with anthracite before and had to start over. Not the end of the world. Ever started a campfire? Start your forge the same way. First, you need something that you know will light. Newspaper, cardboard, dryer lint, etc. work just fine. Once you get that going, you need something slightly bigger (very small twigs) that your tinder can catch. Keep just adding bigger sticks or chunks of wood until you get to pieces roughly 1/2" in diameter. By this time, you should have a good little pile. Now turn your blower on, and keep adding short sticks until you reach say 3/4"ish diameter. Now sprinkle some small pieces of coal over the fire. Once those stop smoking and catch, you can throw a good sized pile of coal on. Keep the blower on, and watch the coal go from smoking violently, to flaming violently, to glowing bright orange in the center.

This is the slow way to start your fire. There are certainly faster ways to get one going, but when all else fails, this one will get you hammering.

Coal is different than wood. It can be a little tricky and frustrating at first, (especially when trying to learn things like hammer control at the same time) and sometimes it helps to just slow down or even call it a day, if you are really bogged down. That said, If you want to learn even the most basic blacksmithing, (ESPECIALLY  bladesmithing) you will have to learn to suck it up and keep going when things aren't going the way they were planned. You will encounter things that are more frustrating than having trouble getting a fire started.

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My main issue at this point I think was the amount of coal and getting it going.  My air flow was well kind of jacked up, just a pipe with a couple holes drilled into it and run underneath the axle hole in the break drum.  How ever I ran to home depot grabbed a new pipe, and a T joint a plug and a flange I think that will more than likely increase my airflow into the break drum because of the flange which is roughly 3 inches in diameter with the opening of course so that will go directly into the break drum itself.  So I think I should be ok.  I guess I'm going to step outside now and give it another attempt.  I do not have any scrap wood laying around thats small enough to get that type of fire going,  My only option to start the fire at this point is kingsford charcoal.  So it will have to do for now.  Well all here we go wish me luck.

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While your at the big box store pick up a pallet, which is good dry wood and when broken up it is great for starting a fire. Build a fire that a boy scout would be proud of. Then add a little air and a hand full of your coal. Once the coal catches, add a double handful of coal. Then more air and more coal until you get a good coal fire going. 

As stated anthracite coal needs some air or it will go out.

Fuel does not make the fire hot, air makes the fire hot. Any restriction (small or not enough holes) keeps air from getting to the fire. Look at some of the posts on solid fuel forges. You will need some sort of grate to keep the fuel from falling into the air pipe. I use 2 ea 3/8 inch bolts across a 3 inch opening in my forge and can use coal dust as fuel. 

forge 2

 

The JABOD is a good example of air getting to the fire through a 3/4 or 1 inch open pipe. 

Do not give up on building a forge.  Make it work for you.

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Glenn - Today  I think the forge beat me, just like baseball 3 strikes and your out.  I had a great bed of coals and the dag gone anthracite coal still wouldnt ignite.  So it beat me today, but as stubborn as I am I'm not going to give up on this.  The sad thing too is I was a boyscout.  Not to mention I am a full fledged pyro.  I love fire.  So of all people I would have thought I could simply get a fire going lol.  Nope beat again.  Plus it's a bit windy outside here so that probably wasn't a good idea to begin with.  But I think I will take your suggestion and a lot of other suggestions and get some dry wood.  I do have some 2 by 4s that I could quite litterally cut up and chunk up.  But then I would have to break out my saws all.  I didn't save any of the branches that were downed from the wind storms either.  I'm now wishing that I would have saved them.  Welp back to farming simulator for now and I'll try again with the forge tomorrow or sunday but I can provide a sample of what the forge looks like going.  Yes it does get hot with the revamped airflow.

0302181141.jpg

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You have to have a good blast to get the stuff to light, let the briquettes get white just like for cooking, shake them to get the ash off, add a handful of coals to the top, surround the briquettes with coal leaving plenty of room for flames to escape the top and as the coal starts to light pull more fuel in to the hot center. Takes a bit of patience. 

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I get frustrated with things easily at times this was just one of the times I happened to get quite frustrated with it on why it just wouldn't keep going.  But meh what can I say I still have some adjustments to make to the forge as well the BBq shell is going to go away eventually and I will have stands welded to it and an actual proper pipe for the airflow my only problem is I just don't have access to a welding machine or grinder/ cut off saw at the moment.  So I'm quite lacking on tools.  So in the end I am limited on what I can do for the forge build.  Fire on the other hand yea eventually I'll get it.  I completely forgot I had almost a sheet and a half of left over ply wood that I can break up and use to start the fire.

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With the limitation on tools please take a look at the different JABOD posts. Like what Charles suggests. Simple to build even out of ( yeah, they said it) Dirt. And a pipe. And the pump Charles suggests. Give it a shot. The main goal here is to get forging. 

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Ah yeah.... there are always the HVAC repair places to ask about used blowers they might have. 

On the other hand, switching to old pallet wood could get you hammering hot steel if you find a source for the pallets. Just be sure to rest the thread Glenn provided about possible toxins in certain pallets. 

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  This morning I tried revamping my air flow with a hair dryer set up.  In the end that proved to be somewhat pointless.  As the hair dryer did not supply enough air.  I'm at a point where I'm just going to say the heck with it until I can get the break drum stood up on proper stands high enough and some proper air flow and a proper blower.  I can't use my shop vac because it is too noisy and deafening.  I worked on it for a bit this morning, I didn't even get a fire started what so ever.  So in the end I'm just going to step back slow way down read more information.  This is just too danged frustrating at the moment.  So I will be waiting a while until I can actually get a decent start going and by then I should have a decent source of wood saved up so I wont have an issue with that.  But I will have to wait until I can get access to a welding machine so I can weld everything and get everything done properly.   I E welding legs onto the drum itself.  Welding a pipe and a T to the drum for the airflow and ash dump.  I do believe my biggest problem probably is that I am just over thinking this way too much.  But in the end if I slow back down and just wait and gain access to a welder and some other tools to set things up properly at least I will probably be in a better off situation.  For now it's back to gaming I guess.

There is no reason to start a new thread for every post, merged back into main thread

 

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Hi Andrew. Since you are in Washington State have you considered joining the North West Blacksmith Association? This forum and the smiths here are a wonderful resource but there is nothing like having hands on help. Even pictures don't always tell the whole story since they aren't dynamic and only show one perspective. I try to get to the NWBA meets almost every month in Longview, which isn't that far from you. You could meet a bunch of smiths in person, and if you brought the forge the help could be very profitable to your smithing endeavors. I built a JABOD style forge and posted it as "Just a tub of dirt", took it over to Shady McGrady's house (he lives near me) and he had a brake drum forge. We were burning Cowboy brand charcoal and both of us forge welded chain links. Shady posted pictures too. I have used coal and while it takes more to light, your frustration may come from not knowing what to expect and how to manage the fuel, or maybe the need to make an adjustment to the forge, some things a little in person help might overcome easily.

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3 hours ago, AndrewB said:

the hair dryer did not supply enough air. 

Then switch to the shop vac to prove that you CAN get a fire going. The shop v

has has way too much air so there has to be a restriction in the system somewhere that keeps the air produced from getting to the forge and to the fire. Check the air coming out of the shop vac, and then check for the same amount of air at each joint or connection until it gets to the fire. If you get less air at some point, you found and just passed the restriction. Clear the restriction and test again.

Hint: the shop vac should have about a 2 inch hose. Be sure you are on the blow side of the shop vac, and not the suck side. As long as your not trying to blow 2 inches of air through a soda straw, it should work. 

 

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