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Little giant issues


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I’ve got my new to me 100lb little giant mounted and I’m having some issues. If tried searching for these problems using google and iforgeiron bit haven’t had much luck. I plan on purchasing one of the dvds in adjusting these but buying the hammer wiped out the smithing fund. This hammer doesn’t seem to be hitting very hard. I’ve read that I need 2” between the dies for the most power but I can’t figure out how exactly  to do that. If I raise the collar up on the pitman it doesn’t hit at all.  Sometimes the clutch doesn’t disengage and it will keep hitting although not hard. It’s got additional springs connected to the clutch fork so I don’t think it’s a spring issue. The clutch has a pretty decent coating of oil as well.  Also, one side of the clutch fork pops off of the tab if I mash on the treadle.  I’ll be happy to take pictures or videos of anything needed to diagnose the issues. Thanks

bad link removed

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16 hours ago, JHCC said:

I'm only getting sound on that file. Was it supposed to be video?

Bet that was helpful! It was suppose to be a video but it obviously did not work. If someone would be kind enough to explain to me how would be best to upload videos I’ll get it posted. 

I feel like I should clarify the not hitting hard part. It will hit hard but you’ve got to baby the treadle to do it. It seems like the faster it runs the less hard it hits. 

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 I run my 100# LG with 1 1/2'' between the dies with the ram full down at rest . This is where Sid at Little Giant suggested when I bought it rebuilt as new about 18 years ago.  This gives a good hard solid blow at the bottom of the stroke and will work stock from  1/4'' up to about 2''  without adjustment.  The tension on the toggle arm adjuster nuts should have the toggle arms level or pointing slightly up towards the ram at rest.  Oil the clutch with something light like 30# thinned with kerosene or diesel.   I think the fork popping off the tab on the clutch yoke would be a good thing to fix first  Bend the fork in so it stays engaged and see if that helps

Pictures would help

 placing each sentence on its own line is harder to read

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My 100# is an old style with the wraparound guides and with the center clutch so it's set up a bit differently than yours. The clutch is all metal on metal.  I've had problems with mine in the past with it getting cranky and not responding   to the treadle after working perfectly all day.  This seemed to happen most often when I was approaching the hammer from the left side , working across the length of the dies.  I think I solved it by adding a second return spring on the left side of the frame to lift the treadle so the  action was more consistent.   I also put an additional spring pulling up on the clutch control arm where the treadle connecting rod meets it .  I did this because the over the top band brake I made for the hammer is controlled via the treadle  .The brake is disengaged through the same linkage that  the clutch is engaged.  I'll try to post some pictures of my set up tomorrow.  These are good hammers and can do a lot of work, but everything has to be adjusted and balanced to work right.  Are you getting any binding in your ram guides ?

once again edited out useless spacings

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As far as I can tell, so far, I haven’t got any binding on the guides. In fact the guides were extremely sloppy when I got it. I tightened them up a smidge today and that seemed to help the consistency of the hits. I’ve got a spring on both sides of the hammer connected to the clutch fork in addition to the spring on the right side of the treadle. To me, it doesn’t seem like a spring issue. I went back up to the shop to take another look and the main shaft has got 1/4” of front to back play, seems like that’s got something to do with the clutch disengaging. I’ll get a video of it tomorrow. 

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 The slop back to front in the shaft might be a factor in erratic performance. The clutch normally does't have to move very far to engage the spider.   When mine was rebuilt  they put  a thick machined washer on the shaft behind the crank plate to take up the excess horizontal play in the shaft.  The best thing about these hammers is that all the working parts are visible right out in the open where you can see what's going on.

More editing of useless spaces

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A washer was what I was thinking about. The placement is the issue. Is yours behind the fly wheel or in front of the clutch pulley? I would assume that I’d want it behind the fly wheel because that puts the pitman more inline with the ram. I suspect if I can take up that slack that will remedy the clutch fork issue as well. 

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 The washer that was put in to take up the end play of the main shaft  is about 1/4'' thick and is between  the back of the crank plate and the front top bearing.  I put some oil on it when I lube the hammer before and during use. I think it also gets some of the oil that drips out of the front babbit bearing

 

Please learn how to post

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On the recommendation of lazyassforge -  I pulled the key holding the spider on and moved the spider 1/4” in. This took up the slack in the drive shaft, made the clutch engage quicker and resolved the clutch fork issue. It’s getting better! In the video I’m drawing down a piece of 4”x3/8”    .

 

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On 2/18/2018 at 8:08 PM, Ranchmanben said:

I feel like I should clarify the not hitting hard part. It will hit hard but you’ve got to baby the treadle to do it. It seems like the faster it runs the less hard it hits. 

Sounds like your spring tension's not in sync with the speed.  You should be able to walk up to your hammer and step on it and immediately get full speed.  If the tension's tight and you hammer slowly, the spring can bounce the ram back up before it strikes (flutter); if the tension's light and you hammer fast, your blow will be dead and racking.  Just looking at your video, it appears to me your spring tension's too light; though that'll give you more range in the stock height at a given ram height.  In general, I run a tighter spring than my wife doing the same work, because I tend to run the hammer faster than she's comfortable with.  With a loose spring, you can just plop that ram down if you want to plop it on a tool or something.  

The spring tension's an important adjustment, and there was a reason Little Giant made it easier to adjust on the newer models.  A Little Giant without a brake can make decent single blows if you loosen your spring.  It can be made to set the ram down on a tool to push (drifting), and you can make really slow, tapping strokes (grooving, lining, etc.), but be sure to tighten it back up before you hit fast.   Just play with it, and you'll figure it out.

Mr. Beaudry's old style hammer with the wrap-around guide doesn't work with as well with a lighter spring tension as the newer version does.  I don't know why, but that's my experience.  

On 2/18/2018 at 8:23 PM, beaudry said:

Oil the clutch with something light like 30# thinned with kerosene or diesel. 

That's interesting, Beaudry.  I like heavier oil.  In the summer I'll run heavy way oil, and I never run less than 30w on any of my hammers. Just experiment, Ranchmanben, and find what works. 

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 When I got the hammer from Little Giant , they recommended  the lighter oil on the clutch and something thicker like bar or way oil on everything else.  The clutch is metal on metal  .  The only way to tension the spring on the old style hammers like mine [ built in 1922 ] is through the toggle arm bolts.  The tension that seems to work best is where the arms are horizontal or slightly pointing up towards the ram at rest.   Sid at Little Giant told me that in his experience the old style hammers  with the center mounted clutch and wrap around guides hit noticeably  harder and were easier to keep in adjustment than the new style with rear clutch and side ram guides.

I can't verify that from experience, never having  had the opportunity to use  or really examine one of the new style hammers , but it seems there are some subtle but important difference in both how they are set up and how they perform.  Since these hammers are all orphan machines, most of us are doing our best to keep the knowledge alive and get the best performance out of what we have.

 

Why do you constantly waste our time having to edit out all the extra spaces you include here ?

 

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@Sanderson Iron Playing with it is exactly what I’m doing! So far everything that’s been suggested here has been tried on The Playmate of the Year, as my wife and sister call it, with the exeption of the thinned down oil. Going to try that tomorrow. If it works, I stick with it. If not, I go bat how it was. My upcoming project, starting tomorrow, is going to be drawing tapers on some 3”x1/2” strap down 5/8”x3/4”. That seems like a good time to tinker with the spring tension. 

 

@beaudry When you say that you use thinned down oil on the clutch, do you mean where the wood meets the metal?

 

Just reread your earlier post about your clutch being center mounted and metal on metal. Still, couldn’t hurt to try. I’d like to see a picture of your brake. Although not always necessary, it would sometimes be nice to have. 

 

On another note, I ran a friends Big Blu 110 this evening. I’ve had a fair amount of time on this machine and as far as I can tell it doesn’t hit as hard as the Playmate but is certainly more controllable. I’m sure with more time I’ll get more control.

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On another note, am going to look at a 110 Big Blu next week which only has about 100 hours on it. Never even seen one up close before. Had a 300 Chambersburg for 25 years but sold it when i retired.  still want to play in the fire , so any comments , good or bad will be helpful. Smokey

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