Ross Moffett

Forging Press Design

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Here's my forging press design I've been working and just wanted to know what you guys think of it.

 

Should I maybe add something like Vesconite to the guides, at the moment it's just steel on steel?

 

Ross. 

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I have not designed, or even much used, a hydraulic forge and probably should leave significant comments to others with more experience.  That being said, I'm a bit confused about the all-thread you are using top and bottom to hold the upright I-beams in place.  If that is the only thing keeping the end caps (top and bottom) in place, then I would be worried about the ram force shearing the all thread and popping the top off under load.  If you are planning on welding the top and bottom I-beam sections, then why do you need the all-thread?

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On 2/11/2018 at 12:07 PM, Latticino said:

Quoted text we just read was removed

My plan is to use the all thread to hold the frame together while I'm welding it and also as a bit of extra support.

Regards.

 

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All thread is quite weak; I would suggest replacing it with bolts with the screw threads outside of the load bearing surfaces---after you get it welded up.  I'm assuming that there are  side panels to the cross pieces?

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Hi Thomas,

I did not have a side panel but I will add one now and I will also change the all thread to bolts.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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I am all for a "belt and suspenders" approach to dealing with large forces.

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I appreciate any suggestions and critiques to the design, I'd rather have this over-engineered than have something go wrong later on.

Is steel on steel fine for the guides or should I have something else there?

 

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I hope Iron Dwarf chimes in, he made lots of press and knows all about them. 

Just for conversation sake, since I have never built a press, If I did, I would make a C shape and not a H shape.  

However in relation to your H shape design, if I understand your pictures, you don't have neither a top nor a bottom I beam across the head and bottom to take the force of the press. I see bolts at the top and a plate at the bottom. I think I beam the same as the sides should be all around and welded with gussets at every corner. Vertical I beam could have the outside flange longer and the web and inside flange shorter to join the horizontal beam ... anyway, just a thought. Bolts should all be high tensile 8.8 or similar and forget all thread. 

As for the slides if you wanted to have something that limits wear, that something would be soft and allow for lateral forces (I think) I rather have a bit of wear and keep the ram in place. Also welding a structure like that that takes that sort of force, needs special consideration. I would say stick welding with a powerful DC machine and the right choice of rod. 

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problem with C frame is the tend to spit out tooling and need a lot more metal to make them strong.

large DC stick welder, the ESAB one I have is well over a third of a ton

brass would be good for the slides but mine are steel on steel

control gear is important to reduce wasted travel time and get consistent results, I can set top and bottom travel to 0.25mm as well as controlling it by the footswitch

top tool holder needs to be small outside or when you need to do a tight bend it will be in the way

you never need your top tool holder to touch the table and make tooling to suit, 6" 150mm is close enough

bottom tooling may need a stripper plate for drifting and punching so make sure it can be fixed down well and tooling should be quick and easy to change so you can swap out hot tools and replace with cool ones

my table has a hole in the middle, and sliding out the tool pallet then releasing the bolt holding the top tool means it can drop though and into a bucket of water, replace with another top tool and slide back in pallet in about 30 seconds

press frame: imagine it made of rubber and how it will flex, make sure the flex cannot break welds,lots of webs on corners, frame will flex, measure it with a dial gauge and make sure it is designed so nothing goes towards you if it fails.

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Nice clean design. I agree with Marc1 and the iron dwarf on top/bottom beam orientation and gussets/corner webs for strengthening and the necessity of lots of high quality welding.

What is the bore and stroke of yout ram? How tall will the base be that it sits on? How many tons of pressure are you designing for?

i wish I had Cad Cam skills... sure makes it easy to see what you want to do.

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Thanks for all the replies.

I've changed the design to incorporate your suggestions, please let me know if I have left any out.

Bore size: 120mm. Cylinder length 400mm, obviously this may change depending on what cylinder I can find.

I'm thinking around 30 tons + or -.

I'm planning on having the press on a base with wheels so it's easy to move around, the base will be around 1 meter high.

Once the design is complete I'll post it with a materials list and so on.

Regards.

redundant photos removed

 

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Forging press 4.jpg

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Well that certainly looks more robust.  If you know a structural engineer you might consider asking them to do some calculations for you as regards the different elements.  My instinct is that with the new triangular gussets you may not need the vertical tubular steel sections and the end plates, but that is likely going to be a function of the overall load profile as well as the quality of construction and material selection. I don't see how they would hurt, other than adding unnecessary weight and welding. 

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On 2/12/2018 at 9:31 AM, Latticino said:

Quoted text we just read was removed

Thanks for the input, I'll see if I can get an engineer to have a look at it. Would you have any idea if the hydraulics off of construction vehicles and machinery would work for the press?

Regards.

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they are generally for low pressure as are ones from fork lifts, a lot I have seen operate at 100 to 120 bar, personally I would buy a new cylinder so you know the specs and these days they are quite cheap.

the ones I get are 200 to 250 bar and I can get the bore, stroke, end fittings I want

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:21 PM, the iron dwarf said:

Quoted text we just read was removed

Ok, Thanks, I'll get a new cylinder then.

How much HP would I need for say a 30+ ton press?

Do you think the design is ready or does it still need modification?

Regards.

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Here you can see all the pieces quite nicely.

Give me a shout if anyone wants the design (Sketchup). 

Regards.

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Help!

I can't decide which guide system would work better and be more rigid.

Comments and critiques are welcome.

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Eric Fleming describes his build on another forum in a post titled WIP - Hydraulic Press Build (you can Google it).

i like his design for the guides.

 

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On 2/15/2018 at 4:09 PM, Shady McGrady said:

Quoted text we just read was removed<

Thanks for the reply.

I agree with you this guide system will definitely be stronger and work more smoothly.

I'll post pics once I've changed the guides.

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It is a rare virtue to take up suggestions and elaborate them that quick. I am sure your press will come up real schmick.

Or like you say ... Bakgat !    :P

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I like it! I wish I could do this type of drawing on the computer to help me figure out all of my dimensions and materials.

Your design is pretty much exactly what I am wanting to build. With the exception of the hydraulic ram size. The ram I have is 4” bore x 28” stroke. The retracted length of the ram is 38.25” (pin C/L to pin C/L). I only plan to use 10” of the available stroke though. This would make the extended length of the ram 48.25”. I hope this won’t make the press too tall, or put the lower anvil too low to work comfortably.

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On 2/16/2018 at 9:30 AM, Shady McGrady said:
Quoted text we just read was removed

Thank you, I really appreciate all the replies.

Good luck with the press and have fun making it!

Let me know if I can help with anything.

Regards.

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Ross, I see combo dies in your drawing.  When utilizing combo dies your work will be offset from the center of the ram.  This will encourage canting of your die carrier.  In orde to mitigate as much of the canting as possible, I would suggest using longer guide plates.

1/16”of play in 12” guides is a lot less angle than 1/16” play in 6” guides.  Just my 2 cents. Lookin good.

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