AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Hello all pretty much new here. I stumbled onto this forum site seeking answers on what types of metals I could use to start forging knives and tools from. I’m in the process of putting together a poor mans coal fire forge until I can get the equipment to construct a proper one, (breakdrum forge). I am somewhat new to this process I messed around a little with it in college welding so I have a mediocre idea on what I’m doing. I plan on making knives and other useful items including forging tools for myself. I still have several things I need to finish getting set up, before I can technically get started. But I’m more interested in the coal fire forge rather than propane or gas, way too many bad experiences with propane. Any tips and suggestions would be helpful thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Do a site search for JABOD (just a box of dirt) which is simple and inexpensive to build. Read the knife section of the site from front to back for knife information. Then move on to the blacksmithing general discussion, and forge section. This should answer most of your question as well as give you a ton of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I agree with Glenn. If you buy 2” pipe fittings to build a tuyere for a brake drum forge it will cost you about $50. I started the just a box of dirt thread (pinned in the solid fuel forge section) to show how to build a side blast forge for les than $20 including air supply. You will also find pinned in the anvil section a selection of improvised anvils (the horn as part of an anvil is relative rare up until about 200 years ago) lastly Steve Sells and Rich Hale put in a lot of time answering questions in the beginners knife chat. It helps to do a bit of home work so you are ignorant instead of just clueless. That way you can ask the right questions to gain the information you need. All to often beginners ask questions that in their ignorance are just not what they think they are. We try to answer up. But all to often after answering the same question 5 times a week, we start to answere the question you should have asked instead. Basic smithing skills will improve your knife making, and will be invaluable in forging the tools you need. For a bit of perspective, Viking era smiths used 1 1/2- 2# hammmers, typicaly on small anvils (not much more than a 10# sledge hammer head) with a simple side blast forge burning charcoal. The largest anvil found is still light, some 30# and a foot long including horn, heal and pritchel hole (rare features). Swords, axes, spears, helmets, shield bosses, cooking pots, locks, ship rivets ext were forged with these simple tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I once built a bottom blast brake drum forge and assembled a starting set of tools for under US$20, a lot of it depends where you shop! (Fleamarket and my local ReStore got the pipe fittings for about $8) Basing the comparison on buying stuff at the more expensive places is like saying that wedding rings will cost you thousands of dollars because you only buy at Tiffany's...(my first wedding rings were bought at scrap silver price at a pawn shop, my latest from the fleamarket in Frankfurt AM was about $35. I get silver rings as I wear them thin over time; so I'm on number 4 but we have all the previous ones...). Jabod is an easier build and much more flexible; it doesn't need the false comparison to push folks toward it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: useless quotes removed. Please read the "Read this first" As I said I've already purchased the break drum lol. I got my piping for about 10 bucks and everything I needed for the forge roughly fairly cheap. My stand for now is basically an old camp style bbq shell. The break drum will seat perfectly inside of that shell. My air supply of course will be my shop vack for now until I can inveset in an actual blower. I still have to make several purchases of tools ect to get going before I even start on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Thank you, Thommas. I will except your criticism. We all need friends to keep us humble. Unfortunately I see so many beginners going for the brake drum going so far as to buy a new drum. Living here in the oil patch I can score 2” schedule 40 and 80 fitings buy simply walking down the street as they fall of the feild service trucks all the time. I know one guy who uses a “T” that is 8” on one branch and 2” on the other two. It’s an excellent demo forge, with the rim and legs forged and riveted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Glenn said: Do a site search for JABOD (just a box of dirt) which is simple and inexpensive to build. Read the knife section of the site from front to back for knife information. Then move on to the blacksmithing general discussion, and forge section. This should answer most of your question as well as give you a ton of information. Thanks and yea I actually watched that video the other night. It was quite interesting. Very instructional I thought. 1 hour ago, Charles R. Stevens said: Unfortunately I see so many beginners going for the brake drum going so far as to buy a new drum. Living here in the oil patch I can score 2” schedule 40 and 80 fitings buy simply walking down the street as they fall of the feild service trucks all the time. I only spent 33 bucks on a decent cast iron break drum so it's not like it broke the bank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Shop vacks are so very noisy I see we have to teach you to scrounge and recycle, lol at the heart of it smithing is all about recycling steel from one shape to another, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 They are noisy I'm a disabled vet so I can't spend too much I am on some what of a budget on things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 So wearing out something expensive like a shopvac makes economic sense over getting something free like a super efficient furnace exhaust assist blower from the bone pile at an HVAC place? Could you explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 I'm basically using an old shop vac that was on the cheap side. Pawn shop cheap side. So yea that one I don't really care about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, Berets said: They are noisy I'm a disabled vet so I can't spend too much I am on some what of a budget on things. Thank you for your service and sacrifice. I hope this activity brings you joy and satisfaction. As for your brake drum I hope you didn't buy one from a semi tractor or trailer. Those are way too big and heavy (been there, done that). If using a brake drum, one from a small passenger car is usually about the right size. We tend to advocate the use of brake rotors more than drums since they tend to have "bowl" dimensions better suited to a fire pot than the drums. It's easy to get in the trap of "I bought this so now I have to make it work" when sometimes the better choice is to cut the loss and start again with better materials. Either way welcome aboard and we'll try to help you get pounding on hot steel in short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I think this deserves a repeat: a brake drum or rotor forms the firepot of the forge; not the forge itself! (without a lot of work like slotting the sides of the drum or building a fence so you can get long work into the hot spot!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ok so basically what I'm making my forge out of. Is in the photographs. I'm using the shell of my old BBq as the stand. Yes I lined the inside with refractory cement as a precaution. As well as the break drum that I have. Which was for a Ford pick up truck. I've already done this and the break drum fits perfectly inside the bbq shell with out any of the grill plates inside of the bbq shell. I've drilled a hole through the bbq shell and ran my air flow piping through the shell itself. So yea in the end it will work for now. its on the smaller side but yea it will do I can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ok, I don’t what you to feel picked on here, as we have all made beginners mistakes. I would like to turn this into a teaching moment for others how may be lurking or find this descusian in the future. refractory cement is unnecessary and expensive, clayed soil would have been more than sufficient, and filling the barbecue up with dirt (or refractory cement) one could have easily molded a duck’s nest fire pot and eliminated the brake drum. Brake drums and rotors (back rotors with parking breaks work well) can be had for the price of a box of donuts and a trip to an automotive garage, this also gives you access to spring, axle and steering components of medium carbon steel). Said box of donuts at an exhaust shop, and maybe $20 can also get a tuyere fabricated from 2” exacts pipe. i am on disability as well so I know the need to do this cheap.i have wasted money on forges myself. My current philosify is side blast forges worked for militia, they burn both coal and charcoal, and if build with dirt or loose brick can be reconfigured to effecently tackle a lot of projects. A $10 double acting air bed inflator works well with a 3/4” schedule 40 tuyer and will heat 1” square stock to welding heat with soft coal or charcoal any box or tub at least 18x6” filled with mineral soil placed at anvil hight will work. We have descused what available materials make servicible anvils and what makes expensive doorstops, as well as how to adapt to your particular disabilities (many of us have mental health challenges but even wheelchair bound is not insurmountable). moving forward, let us help. Thommas has built a shop on a $25 a month budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, Berets said: So yea in the end it will work for now. its on the smaller side but yea it will do I can deal with that. The overall forge may be a little on the small side, but the fire pot is on the large side. Around 3 inches deep and 8 inches in diameter is a decent size fire pot. We usually pile up coal over and around the fire pot and then rake coal in as needed. Your current setup may work, but you'll probably burn a lot more fuel than needed and you don't have a good place to store the coal you want to coke up as you go. Putting "green" coal directly on the fire produces a lot of smoke, which is annoying at the very least. You can probably make this work out ok for you for a while, but as you learn fire management you'll most likely want to go a different route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 May I suggest that you slow down a bit, and give consideration to what those suggesting what has been tested and is known to work. Many people will say you need this or that before you start. They have good intentions but in many instances have no idea what they are talking about. The folks on IForgeIron are the real deal, have been there, done that, and figured it out. They want you to succeed. Tools to get started are something to hit with, something to hit on, some metal to get hot, and a way to get it hot. That is the way it has been done for many years, read centuries. The rest are just improvements that make things easier, but not necessarily better. The forum is one of your greatest resources. Learning how to use the forum is sometimes a challenge and well worth the effort. Do a site search for TPAAAT for finding things. It works. As you practice your scrounging abilities you will find the cost of things drop. Do a site search for GTTS or go to the source. This will be your path for finding many items. Take the quick and easy way to get started by using what works. Later if you want to modify things, you will have a standard to compare the new system against and decide if it is an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Glenn forgets that this is also a pier reviewed document ( as you saw from Thomas and I’s brief exchange) we have professionals, talented amateurs and instructors here, not to mention their expertise in their day jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 We have all types here and when you ask N blacksmiths a question you are lucky if you can get away with 2N answers, and then the hand waving will start and the threads will start veering all over and often start accelerating downwards---or at least as downwards as the *strict* moderation policy of these forums will allow! I've said it before here; but for almost all the smiths I've met I would have no problem with handing them my wallet at a conference if they asked; but I would NEVER turn my back on them if they were holding a hose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Welcome to the insanity Berets. You will find that some of us are "Nearly Normal" but still love a good practical joke. I suggest you take a look here to get started. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 You folks may want to know that I do live in a mobile home park with very very strict regulations regarding out door fires. All of my forge work has to be done outside. So I can only have a smaller forge. I can't build anything elaborate like a Big box of dirt or anything large. I have to be able to store the forge inside my shed once it has cooled off. I had to do quite a lot of research on certain fire hazards and work with the fire department and get them to sign off just to get my park managers permission to even start forging iron in this park. So please keep that in mind before you guys tell me I need to do this and that thanks. But everybody's tips and information will all be used. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Inasmuch as you have restrictive conditions for forging, you might consider charcoal for a solid fuel forge or a gas forge. The charcoal will have negligible smoke as compared to a coal forge and the gas forge none at all. That will go a long way to keeping the neighbors happy.l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 I honestly have considered propane. I've even built a propane forge in my welding class a few years ago. But even to this day I wont use it. Highly volatile gas like propane sorry to say scares me. Even with the safety precautions I will not use propane. So I'm opting for coal. I'm building the forge the size of a small campfire bbq and a break drum as stated. So that will probably work for me for a while. So in the end yea I wont use gas. Not saying its a bad choice to use it. But it's my personal choice and my safety choice to not use propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 All good, it’s not an incermountable thing at all. I know of a couple of forges that are sand tables that break down, and the sand goes in a bucket. Another guy has a pile of red brick. Mostly we wish we had caught up with you befor you spent money, we could have saved you some. We have all learned from our mistakes, and we would like to help you avoid making the same ones. Much better if you find new and creative ones to make If the drum proves too large a bit of mud can be placed in it to down size it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 I will figure something out I always do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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