CactusBob

Gas Forge Build

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I am looking at building a propane forge setup and after a lot of reading  I decided to Use a T Burner. The burner may not be the best place to start but I had most of the parts already. One thing I couldn't find was the tap for the mig tip so I came up with something a little different.

Parts used

3/4 run X 1/2 chase Tee

4in nipple

.024 mig tip

1/4 X 1/4 compression fitting

I realized that the mig tip fit right into the compression fitting So I put it in and tightened it to compress the ring then disassembled it leaving the compression ring on the mig tip

I drilled a hole the same size as the O.D. of the compression fitting in the Tee, thank you Frosty for the different ways to drill a tee straight.

I put the fitting in from the outside and went crazy trying to thread the compression nut back in the inside. I did have to cut the compression nut back a little and crown it so it would fit tight and keep the whole thing straight.

I marked the mig tip so it was about in the middle, disassembled, cut the tip and reassembled.

My next step is getting a regulator and associated hoses and valves, is a 3-30 psi regulator good for this setup. I found a place that has a complete setup with regulators for about $70 

So here's the question, did I set myself up for failure or disaster in any way or should this work?

 

Bob

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Give it a tyy and see how it works.  My gut says the set yp will block to much air and you will need some intake holes.

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2 hours ago, Binesman said:

Give it a tyy and see how it works.  My gut says the set yp will block to much air and you will need some intake holes.

Once I have the regulator in hand I plan to. I just wanted to make sure I didnt go totaly off the rails with this. I dont want to build something that goes boom :D

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Looks good enough to me Bob. Don't take this as a given but I THINK you'll need to trim the jet back a little more but that's only if it's burning rich. 

Nothing you said sounds like you're going to blow yourself up or even light an exciting fire. My only safety based question I don't think you've addressed is the hose position. A lot of guys do it and heck have been doing it for decades but I don't care for the propane hose over the forge but getting it separated with a lot of plumbing, fittings and nipples is even worse.

I look forward to seeing your burner heating a forge. Don't get too involved in tuning it until you mount it in the forge. All the pics guys post of their burners running in vises is actually pretty meaningless. Firing into a chamber has far different dynamics than open air. Tune it in the forge.

Looking good Bob, keep it up.

Frosty The Lucky.

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6 hours ago, Frosty said:

I look forward to seeing your burner heating a forge. Don't get too involved in tuning it until you mount it in the forge. All the pics guys post of their burners running in vises is actually pretty meaningless. Firing into a chamber has far different dynamics than open air. Tune it in the forge.

Looking through both Burners 101 and forges 101 I haven't found out what size is good for a 1/2 in burner, I did find the 350 cu in is good for a 3/4 in burner. Do you think that a freon forge or Paint can forge is the correct size?

Bob

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I'm not sure what you're asking Bob. A 0.023 mig contact tip is a good size for a 1/2" T burner. Or are you asking what size forge it will heat? 

The capacity of NA burners is pretty straight forward and is based on the area of the throat diameter. In home builds the tube dia. I find a 3/4" burner will bring 300-350 cu/in to welding temp reliably. If you calculate the area of a 3/4" burner tube vs a 1/2" tube you'll find the 1/4" reduction in diameter results in 1/2 the area and one will reliably bring 150 - 175 cu/in to welding temp. A 1" burner tube will bring 700+ cu/in to welding temps.

The rule of thumb is for a reasonably uni-dimensional chamber, think close to a sphere or cube. Long and narrow won't heat as evenly. 

I don't calculate forge volumes for people it's a simple bit of math you should  know how to do. It's not that I don't want to be helpful but a person needs to know how to do these things, one of the few things they teach in math class you'll actually use in real life. ;)

Frosty The Lucky.

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1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Or are you asking what size forge it will heat? 

 

Yes I was asking what size forge a 1/2" burner would heat. Its been a long day and I thought I wrote it the way I thought abouot it. LOL, next time I guess its think twice write once :D I'll have to measure the tank I have tomorrow or look at the size of a gallon paint can

Thanks for the info,

Bob

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bob.

 

please remember that adding in insulation cuts down on the interior size of the forge.  a 1 gallon paint can if properly lined with wool and refractory uses a pencil tip torch or a 3/8" burner to heat.  As for what size burner is good for a Freon tank forge well that depends on the size of the tank.  I believe (it's been a while since I read them)  The forge plans on Wayne's site are for a 20# propane tank.  If built to plans a 3/4" burner is more than enough for the forge.

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13 hours ago, Binesman said:

please remember that adding in insulation cuts down on the interior size of the forge.  

I figured it out this morning and the gallon paint can would be about 24 cu in while the freon tank is about 150cu in. I have a freon tank and would have to buy the paint can so it looks like the freon tank won that one 

9 hours ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith said:

The Build a Gas Forge plans are written for a 20# Propane tank but also discusses using a Freon tank.

Let me know if I can help you.  You can find my contact info on my Profiles page.

Wayne

Ive looked at your plans and Ron Reil's plans and am trying to decide which one to go with. My biggest issue is welding, I dont have a welder and every person I have talked to in the last three months about doing some welding has flaked out on me at the last minute. Family , friends , you name it. looks like I'll end up hiring out the welding if needed. I am sure I'll be needing help somewhere along this so you will probably hear from me. Thank you

 

Bob

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What in particular needs to be welded that can't be riveted?  My last forge body I riveted things together using the heads of nails as my rivet stock. To make the burner holder I took the piece of pile and sliced down it with a hack saw and bent out and  flattened the tabs to have a space to rivet to the forge body.

 

 

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Freon tank sounds like your huckleberry. So don't weld, there's nothing on a forge that needs to be very structural it's not like you're going to be forging anchors. Pop rivets or sheet metal screws are plenty strong, if a something needs a little extra drill another hole and use another fastener. Use SS fasteners, they don't corrode from the heat as much.

If you really need or want a welder keep an eye on the local sales sheets, "PennySaver" around here, Craigslist or Ebay but garage / yard sales often have better deals. If you don't know how take a college extension course and use their welders, saws, lathe, etc. and have expert help on hand. It's WAY more cost effective than buying your own stuff and asking guys on the internet how to use it. ;)

Well well, look who's online at the same time I am. . . again. Hey Thomas, how's the weather?

Frosty The Lucky.

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8 minutes ago, CactusBob said:

My biggest issue is welding, I dont have a welder

Time for a new tool... Harbor Freight has a 125 amp flux wire welder on sale for$110 U.S. it's what I have and I can weld 99% of my stuff with it. If you decide to get one also pick up an auto darkening helmet, but the hand held shield works just not as handy.

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After a number of days in the mid 60's degF with blinding sun; today was high of 41 degF with a windchill of 36 degF and so quite unpleasant---I wore a long sleeve shirt to work and my light jacket was insufficient. (Windchill of 23 degF when I had to walk across the border this morning.)  At least it should be 68 degF this Saturday...

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43 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

What in particular needs to be welded that can't be riveted?  

 

42 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Freon tank sounds like your huckleberry. So don't weld, there's nothing on a forge that needs to be very structural it's not like you're going to be forging anchors. Pop rivets or sheet metal screws are plenty strong, if a something needs a little extra drill another hole and use another fastener. Use SS fasteners, they don't corrode from the heat as much.

Duh, I didn't think about riveting, when I started comparing the directions I kind of fixated on the welding and hadn't thought past that. Thanks for the reminder. Once I get home tonight I am going to sit down with paper copies of both plans and see which one I will have an easier time with. After reading alot on IFI i do realize I need one set of plans and I will and stick with that. Now to determine the one.

Thomas even tho I'm only a few hundred miles from you , you can keep the low temps. were in the mid 60's today and hopefully warmer by this weekend

Bob

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13 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Snort... low temperature this morning was -5°F with 2 inches of snow on the ground, right now it's 9°F with a wind chill of -10°F... a beautiful day in the Ozarks.:)

When the Air Force took me out of New England and left me in Az I realized no one here knew what a snow shovel was. Here they are used for cleaning up after horses. I decided i decided I would stick around awhile. 

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OTOH I remember a friend telling me about 90 degF days in Feb and 125 degF during the summer where they were in AZ.

In Socorro NM both my heating bills and my cooling bills were less than in Columbus OH and I can't remember the last time we had a good Ozark ice storm down here.

(When my parents moved to Las Cruces NM from New Jersey they tied up a bunch of location specific yard tools with a Do Not Pack sign on them---so of course the movers packed them...However when we went to visit them for Christmas that year---it snowed and they were the only people at their church who had a snow shovel!  So I got to shovel off the church's walks for the Christmas Eve service.)

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LOL, I remember one Easter we were at Church and it started to snow here, the natives Tucsonans didn't know what to do when we got about 4". Of course by the end of the day it was gone

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41 f here now, with the wind chill probably 35, I had to put on my flannel shirt to walk the dog this morning! You guys can keep Arkansas and Arizona!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Looking at your plans after eading the ceramic wool safety info I noticed that neither set actually called for rigidizer. Is that because all the wool is covered by the refractory clay? 

 

Bob

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Wayne, Just to sanity check how I understand your plans I put this in Sketchup and did a cut away.

Green is the shell 

Black is the burner holder / grey is hinges

White is the insulation blanket and tan is the refractory 

Is that correct?

I did get a little lazy and didnt model any screws or the stand

Thanks

Bob

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I know there have been a lot of improvments since this burner hit the streets, but it is easy to build and brings my 300 +/- cu in forge up to welding heat and runs there at 4 or 5 psi.  a little drilling and tapping but no welding.  I forged the flare in my fire pit with the leaf blower idling towards the coals.  I realize that I have made the claim that I followed the directions exactly, but recently realized that the reducer is only 3/4 to 1 inch.  this resulted is a rich burn, but it still works well and is very stable.

burner.gif

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2 hours ago, MotoMike said:

I know there have been a lot of improvments since this burner hit the streets, but it is easy to build and brings my 300 +/- cu in forge up to welding heat and runs there at 4 or 5 psi.  a little drilling and tapping but no welding.  I forged the flare in my fire pit with the leaf blower idling towards the coals.  I realize that I have made the claim that I followed the directions exactly, but recently realized that the reducer is only 3/4 to 1 inch.  this resulted is a rich burn, but it still works well and is very stable.

Thanks for the info, so far I have the burner built, its a 1/2 Tee burner that followed most of Frosty's directions, now Im on to the forge and then I need to pick up the fuel delivery setup

 

Bob

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