Daswulf Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Ah ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliry Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Steve Sells said: Hardening without enough carbon is imposable We don't really know what the carbon content is though, do we? "Weldable steel" can be anything, and the chinese factories that make "weldable steel" most likely melt down anything that stuck to the magnet and sell it back to us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it will harden. I'm saying we don't know if it will. Chances certainly are not in our favor, but I'm willing to let him at least try. We learn more from experience than by accepting someone else's word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Sounds like you are now asking questions when you should have researched and asked questions before building. I read everything on here pertaining to building my own forge and came to the conclusion with gas forges that it's easier to buy them. By far it's way cheaper to make them, but it you don't know what you are doing (as most first forge builders don't) it's really just setting you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, MC Hammer said: I read everything on here pertaining to building my own forge and came to the conclusion with gas forges that it's easier to buy them. By far it's way cheaper to make them, but it you don't know what you are doing (as most first forge builders don't) it's really just setting you back. I strongly disagree with that. After reading the forges 101 and burners 101 there is no reason a person could not build a proper gas forge. It's all there in black and white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Jasent said: After reading the forges 101 and burners 101 there is no reason a person could not build a proper gas forge. It's all there in black and white Agree. The problem is that not so cheap of doing it yourself and you have to follow exactly a reliable «recipe». Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Built mine for about $100. Less than half what you can buy one for which will still need to be rigidized and sealed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, blacksmith-450 said: Agree. The problem is that not so cheap of doing it yourself and you have to follow exactly a reliable «recipe». Reliable recipe is posted at wayncoe along with low priced material. For <100 you can have a forge up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Binesman said: For <100 you can have a forge up and running. Not agree with your numbers... Regulator = 60$ Safety Valve and fitting = 30$ Kaowool = 30$ Kast-o--lite = 40$ Burner = 40$ All others stuff...= ? $$$ I have about 12 forges done, and the cost all much more than 100$ ! Anyway, that's not so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I got my regulator and hose used $20 burner was <$20 to build shell was free wool was a bottle of rum kastolite was $15 + $15 shipping from Wayne rigidizer was$9 shipped needle valve and few small fittings was close to $20 so it was a little over $100 but I still have enough rigidizer and wool for another forge or 2 depending on the sizes and enough mig tips for 4 more burners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It's sure that if you buy used, you get stuff free or you're giving a 0$ value to the stuff that you already have, maybe ! But for someone who starts from scratch, I think that CAN BE a misleading info. That's my point !. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I was starting from scratch. I got together with the local black smithing group and they helped me gather things at much better prices. Anyone can do this with a friendly smile and a good attitude and a little patience. Research first and you will save $ and time in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 hours ago, blacksmith-450 said: Not agree with your numbers... Regulator = 60$ Safety Valve and fitting = 30$ Kaowool = 30$ Kast-o--lite = 40$ Burner = 40$ All others stuff...= ? $$$ Shell (3/8 wall 10" OD irrigation pipe) 10 6 square feet of blanket. 27 5lbs kastolite. 15 Pint matrikote 15 Shipping for all of that from wayne 20 0to30psi regulator with hose 14 from amazon brand new free shipping. Burner >20 follwoing frostys plans to make a t burner So you are correct 121 not 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Jasent, LIke I said it is WAY cheaper to build a gas forge than to buy one. You've illustrated that very well by showing everyone just how cheap the parts are. You had access to experienced blacksmiths to walk you through it and by the sounds you have some experience putting things together. Not everyone has either or both of those things available to them. It's a daunting thing for someone new to blacksmithing to build their first gas forge. I agree 100% that IFI has everything you need instruction wise to build a gas forge, but I still wouldn't recommend it. If someone hasn't even hammered a piece of hot steel it's likely they won't even know what they need from a gas forge in order to do that. Now that I've used the gas forge I purchased, I have no doubt I can build my own if I choose to someday. I'm all for cheap, but I'm also all for having someone start out with tools that work or they will experience nothing but frustration trying to use cobbled together stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 @MC Hammer you are correct. Though what I was getting at is that anyone trying to get started in blacksmithing should reach out to local blacksmiths or blacksmithing groups. It will make your path much less steap! I built 2 horrible gas forges before I succeeded , total failures! One would get hot a cherry if I waited long enough Though I had all the tools needed to fabricate a gas forge and burners I did not have the knowladge or direction till I came here to research. I was given deals on some supply's. And anyone can do that in fact here is a quote from ifi Ceramic fiber blanket: Your single largest expense will be the ceramic fiber insulating blanket, but only if you purchase it. Your local HVAC, furnace, or boiler shops all collect remnants of ceramic blanket that they cannot use (code prevent them from using “drops”; they have to employ fresh material from the roll), so they have to pay to have odds and ends of these refractory rolls hauled away. Let them know what you are up to, and be friendly, and garbage bags of the stuff could be yours for a box of donuts and a smile. The same rigidizer you use to stiffen ceramic blanket can be used to glue remnants together. If you have to buy it anyway, the added expense of getting 8 lb. density and minim of 2400 °F rating isn’t much: Read threw the forum. Search for local smiths and don't make that second failure like I did. It will make your path that much flatter you don't have to spend a bunch of money on buying your tools. With some support you can do this and build most of your tools your self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Lets see: my regulator came from a second hand turkey fryer US$3 at the fleamarket My shell was dumpster dived behind a party store---with their permission My kaowool was given me after I helped load a truck at the scrap yard. (Scrapyard was going to trash it as it lowers the value of the scrap) No shipping. I got the lining goop from Wayne at Q-S. Sure you CAN buy new and pay top dollar, (perfectly usable 0-30 regulator could be bought for $35 last time I bought one); but one is not required to. It's the KNOWLEDGE that people need *first*. I attended 2 gas forge building workshops put on by SOFA that got me the information I needed to go on my own. Note: if anyone is around these parts I have a number of items usable for shells that I'd be happy to sell you for a dollar or two---or even walk you around the scrapyard to choose your own for 20 cents a pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Sorry guys but isn't easy. I made my burner myself and they still cost me 10$ each. Look at the Oliver upwind thread to see what I m be able to get ! Amazon IS the cheapest place to buy regulator. It's 45$ for a 0-30 psi + 15% taxes. ... 50$ Great for you in USA at 20$!!! 1/4 valve 10$, fitting 5$ for the regulator and 10$ for the rest on the gas line Everybody seems agree for 30$ of kaowool. Rigidizer 5$, BUT it's 45$ for the kastolite (20lbs propane tank) and 20$ for Metrikote.... no shipping fees, in my case 50$ ! The shell maybe free or 20$ for some cutoff wheel, welding rod, time and so... That's what I see, that's what I get ! Some people are very proud when the pay hi, some when they pay low. Î don't care!! But don't try me. to believe that you can achieve something paying less than the cost of the hardware ! I know Wayne , i know amazon, I know McMaster Carr.... and i do the garbage of my neighbors ... I think than I'm not a kind of person spending is money by windows... A decent forge is minimum 150$-200$ from scratch. Anyone willing to sell me his for 100$, I'll buy it !! Now i shut up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, blacksmith-450 said: Anyone willing to sell me his for 100$, I'll buy it !! You pay shipping and ill sell you forges all day at that price. The prices i listed are for a beginer paying single build prices. I have devoleped relationships in my area and pay considerable less for things. I get entire 25' rolls of blanket at 35 and 55lb bags of kastolite 50 i buy my matrikote by the gallon at 90 and i can make a linear burner for under 10. So yeah you want 100 dollar forges sure thing. Even buying single build prices i showed you a forge for 120. I would link the amazon page fore the regulator but its not allowed all i have to say is search amazon you will find it 13.99 prime eligable meaning free shipping. I do agree building is not for everyone. But please keep in mind the majority of the production forges out there are not ready to use. A lot of them come with only 1" of blanket wich means you still have to buy blanket. The majority of them come unridgidized wich means you still have to do that. I have not seen a single one that comes with a refractory hardface wich means putting in the kastolite. Now even if it did have a kiln wash on it youve burried it and have to put on a kiln wash. So in essence you spend 300+ for a shell/regulator/burner and then still have to build the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 With your COGS so low and the margin hi! You should start a forges business I m done ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Guys guys, ease up some! This isn't a contest or an argument. Most of us are here to swap lies, tips, tricks try and help guys get up and running, not play one up. If it's cheaper to buy a forge buy it. If you have good sources and shop skills build it. The reason to do any of this is to hammer hot steel and you can do that with a camp fire, tin funnel and a little pipe to make the forge. I'll draw a pic if necessary. This isn't rocket science it's an ancient craft, don't make it harder than it is. Now if either of you get snappish again you'll have to go sift clinkers for 5 minutes or something dirty and smelly. I have kitty litter boxes you know! Back to your corners, at the sound of the bell PRETEND to be happy! Seriously there aren't that many of us I can afford to lose a friend over nothing important. Okay? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Sorry frosty. I turn in to a giant troll behind in december. Not a good time to be a mailman. Blacksmith-450 I apologize. ive actualy contemplated that as i like building forges and have sold a few to acquaintances however im not sure i want to deal with the liability issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Thank. I apologize too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Well said Frosty. There's no shame in buying a forge already made and there's no shame in building one if you have the skills. In the end, it's whatever brings you the greatest success forging hot metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, MC Hammer said: Well said Frosty. There's no shame in buying a forge already made and there's no shame in building one if you have the skills. In the end, it's whatever brings you the greatest success forging hot metal. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 In my experience there are some people who would not be able to forge if you gave them the keys to a fully kitted out smithy next door to their house and others who would figure a way to forge if they were chained to the bottom of a lake! Guess which type is more fun to enable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherViking Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 All this talk of shells, fibre blanket, coatings and so on... What's wrong with a dozen soft fire bricks and a few bits of angle iron to hold the burner? Surely that's an easier, less expensive, more flexible entry to gas forges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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