Claude Brandon

Gauteng Blacksmith Noob - HELP !!

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Hello to all , I am in Benoni in Gauteng and need help finding the components to build a propane forge.

Can anyone advise where to get the things like, fire bricks, refracting cement, clay etc etc etc ......

I have surfed the internet looking but have more chance falling pregnant.

Any advice or help would be appreciated.

Kind Regards

 

Claude (Newbie) 

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Hi, Claude. Building a propane forge can be ambitious for a newbie -- have you considered starting with solid fuel? Take a look at the threads for the JABOD forge, which can be built for practically nothing and can burn either coal or charcoal.

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Welcome aboard Claude, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might have Iforge members close enough to visit. Just telling us in one post isn't going to stick in our memories, I just had to go back and look to remind myself in fact.

I do NOT recommend you use fire brick or home made refractories in a gas forge. Hard refractories of any thickness require excessive amounts of fuel to bring to and maintain at working temperatures. Unless you're building a furnace for industrial mass production that much thermal mass is more a handicap than benefit.

If someone suggests things like sand and Plaster of Paris, or Perlite, concrete, etc. delete the link, their advice is more likely to be dangerous than just bad. Ceramic refractory blanket is good forge insulation but it needs to be covered with a hard refractory flame face to protect it and the people in the area. Breathing the fibers is a health hazard that's easy to avoid with simple precautions. The subject is covered well in the "Forges 101" thread.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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That's the Transvaal, right?

There used to be a pottery supplies place in Pretoria, sorry, can't recall exactly where, if they don't stick kiln components they'd know where to go. 

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On 11/21/2017 at 4:17 PM, JHCC said:

Hi, Claude. Building a propane forge can be ambitious for a newbie -- have you considered starting with solid fuel? Take a look at the threads for the JABOD forge, which can be built for practically nothing and can burn either coal or charcoal.

Thanks JHCC will do.

On 11/21/2017 at 4:27 PM, Frosty said:

Welcome aboard Claude, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might have Iforge members close enough to visit.

Hi Frosty I am in Gauteng which is a province of South Africa . But thanks for the advice, I think I need to reword it :).

What about using a mixture of clay, thatch and sand ? I have seen a few posts in building the complete forge like that but am not to sure with the mixture being contained within a metal structure like a gas bottle ? What are your thoughts ?

On 11/21/2017 at 9:38 PM, Ratel10mm said:

That's the Transvaal, right?

Ja Boet ( Yes Brother or Friend) , in the old Transvaal :) , I have searched on the net but some places I have found only supply on a industrial scale :(

 

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Claude, you don’t have to quote each comment you’re responding to — In fact, unless you’re replying to something specific, it’s best not to. If there is something specific, you can highlight it and then click “quote this”.  Too many quote blocks eat up bandwidth and make the forum hard to read. 

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The place I'm thinking of catered to the hobby / artist market. I have a vague idea it was somewhere in the Sunnyside to Union Buildings area. It was a long time ago, it wouldn't surprise me if it's no longer there. 

Have you tried ringing the industrial places? They'd know of any suitable suppliers for sure. 

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@JHCC, I had responded to the posts and will do so to any person who takes the time and effort to answer my questions or asks me a question, where I was brought up it is considered good manners.

In addition I had replied to each individual post from the emails which were sent to me from the forum and after that the forum system did it's own thing.

Good day to you.

Editing the quotes would  be polite

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We appreciate one with good  manners, John didn't compleat his thought. Many I'd our members are extreamly rual and operating on slow connections (dial up even) it's helpful for them to either eddit the quote window or simply thank the poster. If it makes it clearer what your spacificaly answering certainly use the quote function. it helps them buy not bogging down their download speed. 

One example that comes to mind is Thommas Powers, at work he is herding bits and has access to high speed, wile when he returns home to his lovely wife on the weekends he has slow dial up. 

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Claude: It's an international forum and my good manners can come across as rude or inconsiderate in another country. I've had to modify my style of writing more than once. Were we speaking over a table would you repeat everything I said back every time you responded? Naw, of course you don't maybe a sentence or phrase to make a specific point. My response to your direct question to me regarding making your own forge liner is an example.

No, a propane forge reaches much to high a temperature much too quickly for a home brew refractory to survive long. Clay, straw and sand is appropriate for a solid fuel forge bed, coal or charcoal. However a properly made and tuned propane forge burner can push the temperatures upwards of 2,700 f. or 1,482 c. or high yellow by eye. This is well above the melting temperature of silica sands and unless you have one of the iron bearing lime clays available, it won't last either.

I wish I could help you find a proper refractory. All I can do is repeat the steps I followed to find what I needed locally. First I called ceramic and pottery suppliers and and potters. Then I called a furnace service company who put me in touch with another furnace service company who also supplies materials for other HVAC service companies. Then called "E. J. Bartell" I still buy my refractories from them with a few rare exceptions. Bartell doesn't carry kiln washes, I have those shipped in.

So, please edit my post as small as possible to maintain a sensible conversation. I choose to give everybody the benefit of the doubt as to their courtesy. I respect everybody, a person has to try pretty  hard to lose it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Hello Claude.

I am in Bronkhorstspruit, you are welcome to drop in any time if you want to.

South Africa has not discovered the internet for business yet.

The only refractory places I can recall for now is Vereeniging Refractories, and Alusil Refractories, it has been a few years since I bought from either of them.

There are quite a few local Blacksmiths, we get together at least once a year.

The Bladesmiths are more active, they have about 4 meetings a year, the next time is at Black Dragon Forge on 9 December. 

########

For those of you that miss me, these fancy forum updates are too advanced for my ancient desktop, so today is the first time in a while that I have the opportunity to get on here. It is nice to see some names I still remember. 

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Good to see you again Jacques! Updates of all kinds have loaded my computer with so much bloatware it typically take a good 5 minutes to boot up. It's gotten to the point Iforge updates are just a minor blip.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Hi all, I was unable to find a decent Anvil so decided to construct my own for now.

Please see the attached word document which outlines my idea.

Comments and Suggestions would be appreciated.

The BIG question is will this work ?

security risk remoived

Another question , I have managed to get hold of a steel forklift propane tank for my coal forge.

The question I have is do I need to lay a layer of insulation in the forge or not, as some vid's on the internet show them being used once constructed without any lining.

I am going to make a Jabod type solid fuel forge.

I have a 5mm steel plate which I will use to fabricate the inside of the propane cylinder to create the hot pot etc. How big does the hot pot need to be ?

Comments and Suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

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As you will need to do full penetration welds and then heat treat the face it would be far faster and cheaper to just use a solid block for the body and make a separate horn/heel stake anvil

Have you looked at the thread on improvised anvils here?

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Hi Thomas, I will have a look at the improvised Anvils but like your idea of using the solid block, just a question though the components as listed in my document were all cut from the same steel, would I need to heat treat the block as well if I am only to use it as the anvil ??

Could I heat treat the face before welding to the block or must it be done attached to the block ?

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Depends on the alloy; are you familiar with full penetration welds? Pretty much guaranteed to mess up any previous heat treat.  If it's the same stuff---why go to all the trouble to do a full penetration weld to put more of it on?  Remember if it's a higher carbon alloy you will need to do a preheat to prevent self quenching and HAZ cracking.

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According to the documentation the  S355JR Steel is equivalent to the USA A572 steel , the S355JR is used as a structural steel material.

I am familiar with penetration welds and the preparation of the joins for the full effect.

Lol, if I have to heat treat the anvil I am going to need a crane , just the block on its own is about 180- 200KG never mind the additional components to be added - OUCH!!

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Again why mess with the block?  Use it as it stands!   It's fairly easy to make a stake anvil from a drilling sledge or even a pickax to serve as a horn.  There are examples shown here fairly recently. Structural is usually a low carbon and so heat treating may not buy much. (A572 was less than 23 points so a "mild steel")

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Hi I need some advice please :

I have managed to get hold of a steel forklift propane tank for my coal forge.

The question I have is do I need to lay a layer of insulation in the forge or not, as some vid's on the internet show them being used once constructed without any lining.

I am going to make a Jabod type solid fuel forge.

I have a 5mm steel plate which I will use to fabricate the inside of the propane cylinder to create the hot pot etc. How big does the hot pot need to be ?

Comments and Suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

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Dirt, especially clayey dirt will do fine for a lining.   Solid fuel forges are not so picky as the fire doesn't automatically push the heat out of the forge...

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I know this is an old thread but anyway, for every South African looking for insulation materials this could be useful information (I'm wondering that nobody mentioned this company as they are the place to go in South Africa)

keramicalia.co.za

the general purpose material for gas forges would be the "Hollocast" range, for standard forges Hollocast 1. Affordable and easy to use.

I have no advantage advertising for this company, I'm only a highly satisfied customer.

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Just skimming the castables has me wanting to try some and they make a bunch. Looks like SA has refractories covered. Thanks for the tip, good info.

Frosty The Lucky.

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theimi -

Thank you, I have been looking to get new refractories for my kiln now for ages, never new of them, thank you very much

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