Will42805 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Hello I'm new to this forum. I'm also new to Forge building and blacksmithing. I'm trying to build a quality Forge that will last a while. The Forge is made of 9 by 4.5 fire bricks both 2 1/2 (top and bottom) and 1 1/4 (sides). The forge sides top and bottom will be a welded 11 gauge steel tube sized to fit tightly around the bricks. There will be two removable end caps that will protect the bricks on the ends from damage and allow replacement of bricks that are damaged. The forge OD is 27 in Long by 9 in wide by 9.5 tall. The ID is 4.5 x 6.5 x 27. Obviously seeing as I am new at this I am looking for any input both positive and negative. Any ideas warnings or additional commentary are very much appreciated. Initial questions that I have are. 1 I've noticed some Forge burners have the Bell on the bottom and some are mounted to a floor plate. What are the positives and negatives of both. If I should do the Bell how far into the brick should it extend. I have chosen to make a Venturi style valve using three quarter to 1 and 1/4 reducers. I'm also using three quarter pipe 8 inches long for the burners. I have used a number 58 drill bit for the office and a 1/4 OD brass pipe nipple for the Venturi burner. I expect to run all three burners off of a manifold. Each burner will have its own needle valve. I like to think I have most of this down but I'm sure I will find a few criticisms and learn something along the way. Thanks for your time in Reading this and I look forward to the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Check out the Build a Gas Forge on the Forge Supplies page of my web-site. The fire brick is a heat sink and will cause you to use excessive amounts of gas and will therefore, also take a long time to heat up to forging temperatures. You can get the url for my web-site as well as other contact information on my Profiles page. Let me know if I can help you. Where are you located? It would be good to put that in your Profiles page. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 Ok then. So if i choose to go the inswool route. What is truly needed. I see there are a few basic options, the 1in , 2in, and then we have the hp or htz. The inswool htz seems to be the best due to the 2600 degree rating. I also would think 11g steel for the barrel should work fine if I use a 2 in thick layer of inswool htz. How long (approx) would this type last. I am just doing the hobbies knifemaker thing. I realize this forge i s probably a bit big for what I'm going to use it for but I also do not want to end up upgrading if I choose to perhaps twist long lengths of wrought iron or whatever else. I tended to build things to exceed my needs. It rarely leaves me disappointed. I would also more than likely try to angle the burners so that they create a Vortex and move air around to create a more even heat inside the Forge. I currently live in Sheboygan Wisconsin and have updated my profile thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Will a few suggestions. 1. Use 2 lauers of 1" blanket not a single layer of 2". Should tou manage to get enough heat to the blanket to damage it enough to need replaced you only have to replace the top layer. 2. While the 2600 blanket will obviously hold up to more heat 2300 blanket is fine if you build the forge properly. 3. My recomendation on building the forge liner is. 2 layers of 1" blanket each layer rigidzed. A 3/8" thick layer of kastolite 30. Followed by a coating of metrikote. That is how i built my forge and its held up to everything ive thrown at it (keep in mind im teaching myself how to smith by watching youtibe and reading then adjusting to get it 1/2 ass correct THEN teaching my son what i kust learned) so my forge gets a lot of abuse. For the shell use what works for you. I used 10" id 10mm irrigation pipe but realistically the shell is just a shell do what makes tou comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Okay so I am looking for materials to build an outer shell out of. Ideally I would prefer a 35 gallon air compressor tank or something along those lines. Due to financial issues I'm looking around to find out if there's anything in the house I could use. I have an old beer keg that is made out of aluminum however it's pretty sturdy. Would I be asking for troubles using this. I'm not entirely sure how hi the temperature on the outer material will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, Will42805 said: I have an old beer keg that is made out of aluminum however it's pretty sturdy. Would I be asking for troubles using this. I'm not entirely sure how hi the temperature on the outer material will be. To quote @Mikey98118: Quote Aluminum alloys depend on tempering for most of their strength. Your forge will likely run at about 400 F heat throughout most of its shell; this will suck all the strength from it. Forge exhaust openings are often found in the 1500 F heat range. Aluminum alloys all MELT above 1200 F. Yes, you can make a beer keg forge work, but it will always be marginal. In other words, Yes, you'd be asking for trouble. Beer kegs make decent slack tubs and quench tanks, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 I figured just thought it would look really cool. However function obviously comes before form. Thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Will42805 said: Thanks for the input That's why we're here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeThePro Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 As someone also getting started, I would advise that you start much smaller before building a larger forge. Think coffee can or disposable helium tank, as I’ve learned quite a bit in the construction so far that I’m glad hasn’t been learned on a larger scale yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, JoeThePro said: As someone also getting started, I would advise that you start much smaller before building a larger forge. Think coffee can or disposable helium tank, as I’ve learned quite a bit in the construction so far that I’m glad hasn’t been learned on a larger scale yet. Like what in particular. I'm not entirely sure as to the lifespan of these forges but I would like to make one that lasts quite a while and will exceed my needs for that duration of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeThePro Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 16 minutes ago, Will42805 said: Like what in particular. I'm not entirely sure as to the lifespan of these forges but I would like to make one that lasts quite a while and will exceed my needs for that duration of time. #1 is that a forge created to be big enough for everything will likely fail at being really good at most things. The majority of forging is going to be performed over 7-8", and a forge closer to those sizes is going to be better in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Good Morning Will, I had a Brick Forge like you have. I used it for years, it takes about 20 minutes to come up to temperature. Your Burner is too small for that Forge, you need a Burner with a blower. Those Fire-Brick soak up too much heat. Don't put the Burner in from the top, go in the side, about the middle of 2 brick long Fire-Box. The flame must roll, not hit a wall!! A Good Propane Forge will be up to temperature in 2 minutes instead of 20 minutes. Do yourself a favor, find a Blacksmith Association close to you, go to one of their meetings and learn. Sometimes Learning is best done without a loud voice and by using your Huge Ears. It is a lot less frustrating to buy a Forge that already works. You can spend your time learning How to Forge, instead of getting frustrated. Be patient!! Neil Consider this Forge, round 1. Nothing ventured, nothing learned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 6 hours ago, JoeThePro said: #1 is that a forge created to be big enough for everything will likely fail at being really good at most things. The majority of forging is going to be performed over 7-8", and a forge closer to those sizes is going to be better in the long run. So what you're saying is it may be better to have a small Forge for knives and a longer one for longer objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesaika Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 No matter how big your forge is you can only work about 6inches at a time before it cools. Heating more can be bad for the metal since you won't be able to work it, there's a term for it but I'm too new, surely someone else can give more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Think of it like getting a vehicle---would you buy a dump truck as your daily driver because you think you will be needing to buy a load of gravel in a couple of years down the road? Yes you can build and use a large forge and spend much more in wasted fuel than building another forge for larger items would cost. Unless you are skilled and have the use of a powerhammer heating long lengths of blades damages the steel through decarburization, grain growth and scale losses. So a smaller forge heating say 6" to forging temp will easily do a blade 12" long. Now if it has a pass through in the back a forge with a 6" hot zone can be used to forge a 6' zweihander. The only time you need the whole thing hot is when you heat treat---and you can make a cheap trench forge for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 ok so after a lot of deliberation this is my new plan. It is 18 inches long and here are the dimensions. It will be powered by 2, 3/4 Ron Reil burners. The outside shell is 1/8in. thick steel. I am unsure which way to orient the burner Top/Side But i would like it offset to create sort of a vortex. The end caps will have 2 inches of inswool in each. bringing the inside of my forge dimensions to 14 long 8in wide giving me 704 cubic inches, not including the obvious holes in the end caps. If i remember correctly 1 reil burner should be ok for about 350 cubic inches. Obviously i will also coat the inside with rigidizer (actually am concidering rigidizing each layer so when i need to replace a layer I assume it would be easier and then coat the inside with itc-100. Hope i am getting closer, thinks for all the info guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesaika Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 You should definitely rigidize each layer of fiber blanket. If you don't the fibers can become airborne and they are bad to breath. This is covered in the forges 101 thread I believe. It's also recommended that you don't use itc-100 because it is over priced and, I believe, it won't last as long with flux. This is also discussed in the forges 101 thread, I suggest you read over it, and alternatives are given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Your at the very litnfor whatbyour burners can heat id recomend goung to 1" burners or better yet putting down a 1" layer of kastolite30 on the floor and area the burners will hit and a 1/4" coating around the rest ofnthe forge reducing your heating area and addimg in better thermal mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The easiest way to provide a strong light forge shell is with steel containers. Just as coffee cans make tiny forges, steel drums provide shells for large forges; everything from lube tanks to oil drums. Automotive garages can provide everything from 15 to 50-gallon drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:02 PM, JoeThePro said: As someone also getting started, I would advise that you start much smaller before building a larger forge. Think coffee can or disposable helium tank, as I’ve learned quite a bit in the construction so far that I’m glad hasn’t been learned on a larger scale yet. Like what in particular. I'm not entirely sure as to the lifespan of these forges but I would like to make one that lasts quite a while and will exceed my needs for that duration of time. I've looked all over trying to find instructions for a 1in forge burner. I feel that two 1in burners should work well. However all the plans I can find are for three quarter and half inch burners. If someone could direct me towards 1in burner instructions I would appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyForge Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 If it is well built a small forge will be about as durable as a big one. (Depending on how you use it, how long etc.) I worked with a 100 cubic inch forge and a 1/2 inch T burner for a good while and it was sufficient for most blade work. With a pass-though opening on the far end it can even accommodate longer work. ! inch burners are pretty much up scaled versions of smaller ones. 3/4 is twice the output of 1/2. 1 inch is twice the output of 3/4. If you look at most burner plans you will notice that the ratio of air intake to mixing tube matters and the orifice size for the given burner tube diameter. Most of this is discussed in the burners 101 thread pinned in the gas forges section here. The design you posted in October has quite a deep (long) chamber, you would probably be better off with 2 x 3/4 inch burner to evenly heat the entire length. If you really want to use a bigger burner a single one inch should suffice. 2 will be over kill for 750 cubic inch. You state you 'feel' that 2 one inch burners will work well. what do you base this on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 On 11/16/2017 at 6:04 PM, Binesman said: Your at the very litnfor whatbyour burners can heat id recomend goung to 1" burners or better yet putting down a 1" layer of kastolite30 on the floor and area the burners will hit and a 1/4" coating around the rest ofnthe forge reducing your heating area and addimg in better thermal mass From what I understand the 2, 3/4in burners would be cutting it a bit close with the 704 cubic inches I came up with for my most recent plans. Binesman suggested I go to 2 1 inch burners. Ive also concidered 2, 3/4 inch burners and another layer of inswool bringing my forge internal dimensions down quite a bit.. I suppose 4in of inswool would only insulate better... I should add I've already got the tube and the burner mounting tubes welded up. So these are sort of set... 4 inches of inswool are probably a bit much but if it won't negativly affect anything but cost it should work. Ive aldo concodered an inswool dam to temporaraly block the back and use only half the forge but ill figure that out later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Have you chosen the type of burner you intend to use or are you open to suggestions? If your open id say go with T burners. Im sure frosty would help you convert the 3/4" plans to 1". Thats assuming that the information isnt already in the T burner pinned section (its been a while since i read it i know the info to convert to 1/2" is in there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will42805 Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 I should add I've already got the tube and the burner mounting tubes welded up. So these are sort of set... 4 inches of inswool are probably a bit much but if it won't negativly affect anything but cost it should work. Ive aldo concodered an inswool dam to temporaraly block the back and use only half the forge but ill figure that out later. Was planning on the Ron reil design. I have the 2 1 inch pipes and 1-1/2 to 1 reducers... I took 1.5 inch pipe nipples and cut and drilled them to hold the pipe across the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Ive never built a reil style burner however blacksmith 450 on this site has been making and showing very good results with his version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.