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So, I'm writing a paper for my English class, and I decided to write about two things I have a passion for. 

My question is which version of metal work is better? Who here would take blacksmithing over welding and vice versa. Why do you choose one over the other? I'd love all of your opinions and I can't wait to hear from you all.

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Which is better a Dump truck or a Cargo ship?  One is not better than another; they do different things.  If you need a dump truck a cargo ship will Not work. If you need a cargo ship a dump truck will Not work.

Now do your own homework.

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7 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Which is better a Dump truck or a Cargo ship?  One is not better than another; they do different things.  If you need a dump truck a cargo ship will Not work. If you need a cargo ship a dump truck will Not work.

Now do your own homework.

Using a Dump Truck in place of a Cargo Ship is impractical, yes. However, both do similar things. Just in different capacity. A Cargo Ship is just a big Dump Truck that "swims".

It is true, Blacksmithing and Welding do different things, but they aren't ENTIRELY different. The practice of Forge Welding comes to mind. Forge Welding is done in Blacksmithing. The Welding Association acknowledges that Forge Welding IS a form of Welding. Welding is the process of combining two metals with or without heat and with or without filler metal. Metal is welded with Pressure and Heat. Heat is created under pressure or from an outside source. Blacksmithing is using heat and pressure to combine two metals into one piece, just without the extra "umph" of an electric current. In fact, Blacksmithing and Welding aren't even that different in the ways they heat metal. A Blacksmith might use a gas forge, one powered with Propane. Welders commonly use a 75/25 gas mixture for MIG or TIG welding.

So, in conclusion, your response is not entirely correct. Yes, Blacksmithing and Welding are different, but one was derived from the other. Hence, they do similar things.

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Um. I'm sure you're not meaning using propane as a shielding gas...?

Kaboom.

Unless there is a special new inert propane nobody's told me about?

GMAW and GTAW don't "use" propane. Preheating often uses propane!

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3 hours ago, Exo313 said:

Um. I'm sure you're not meaning using propane as a shielding gas...?

Kaboom.

Unless there is a special new inert propane nobody's told me about?

GMAW and GTAW don't "use" propane. Preheating often uses propane!

No, no. Not as a shielding gas. Of course not. 

 

And I know GMAW and GTAW don't use it as an inert gas. I meant when it comes to heating the metal for reforming, you use Propane. Like with a gas forge.

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May I commend to your attention Tylcote's "Solid Phase Welding of Metals"  which includes Explosive welding and Vacuum welding; so does welding derive from those as well?

If you know already why ask us?  May I mention the Dunning–Kruger effect?

As a hint: most blacksmithing is based on the plasticity of steel at elevated temperatures.  Most modern welding is not...Still you chose the topic you need to do the research! 

If you are near Socorro NM next Saturday stop by NM Tech; I'll be smithing at an SCA event there and can direct you to various examples of explosive welding done as art on the Campus.

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I dont see where this question has anything to do with alloys as your subject states either

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Fledgling Hawk, 

Forge welding and arc welding do have similarities, but they are very often not interchangeable. ...Just like dump trucks and cargo ships. You asked us which one is better, so tell us what kind of application you are referring to. Yeah, I know you meant "just in general", but that's like asking "What's better? Being equipped with the skills to fix the bucket on your front end loader, or being equipped with the skills to make your own Damascus blades?" They are both welding, right? Think about it for a minute. Arc welding wins for #1 and forge-welding wins for #2. 

It can be easy to ask yourself the right question, but leave out crucial variables when  you ask someone else.

 

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Just as an observation, GMAW and GTAW welding some metals requires gasses like argon, because at welding temps in an oxy rich environment they ignite.

  As all the above state in their curmudgeonly way while welding with modern aids seems to take a note from the history of blacksmithing they really are separate beasts.  I think the best way I can come up with to explain it is to have you take four blocks of butter in the freezer overnight to simulate the steel.  Now heat up a jeweler's' flat head screwdriver.  now take two of the frozen blocks of butter out of the freezer and swirl the hot screwdriver along the edge penetrating no more than 1/8" (simulating the maximum depth of weld without chamfering or gouging) and put those blocks back in the freezer before they warm too much.  Then take the other two blocks throw them on a hot skillet for a few seconds lift them out and put the two molten faces together, press a bit and put them back in the freezer.  After an hour pull them out and break them apart and see which held better.

  Now the real fun questions of processes comes in.  Does that make forge welds the most efficient? No because there are far more certified arc welders than people capable of forge welding and forge welding generally uses heavier stock than modern industries use. Thus the comments above observing the apples and oranges of your original question.

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For many years I designed processes for "Welder/Fabricators", that also incorporated a variety of simple bending and forming operations, ... as-well-as heat treating.

So, I have to agree, ... that the line between "Forging" and what I'll call "Advanced Fabrication", ... is a bit blurred.

When Oxy/Acetylene and Arc Welding equipment became available, I'm certain that Blacksmiths were among the first to embrace the new processes.

So, ... you might make the argument that modern day Welders ARE a natural evolution of the Blacksmith's craft.

 

.

 

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I think a more appropriate version of this question would be Machining vs. Forging. Is it better to stamp a bottle opener out (or grind it, drill it, etc.) or to forge it? Stock removal vs forged blades? Things of that nature are at least comparable. But a similar point can be made even then; each has its place. Machining a carburetor would be immensly easier than forging one. 

Point is, no one version of almost any type of work is invariably superior to another. Each has its place in its own line of duty. 

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The skills are like tools in a toolkit; the more of them you have the easier projects tend to become.  Having the right tool for the job is a joy.    You can get away using the wrong tools to some degree but you are much more likely to damage them, the project and or yourself! Some things you can use a number of different tools on: open/closed end wrenches, adjustable wrenches and sockets/drivers can turn a bolt, but using a hammer and a chisel you'd better not expect to reuse that bolt much...

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Hmm. Welding vs. black smithing.? Well, I started out learning some welding and later started learning blacksmithing. You can weld welding, and you can weld blacksmithing...  So would the welding side include stock removal? To pick, I pick both. Now. To pick years ago before I learned more,  I'd pick welding/ stock removal.  But yeah, now I pick both. 

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On 10/25/2017 at 10:23 PM, ThomasPowers said:

The skills are like tools in a toolkit; the more of them you have the easier projects tend to become.  Having the right tool for the job is a joy.   

AMEN.

 

.

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