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I had a great old '81 SAAB 900 Turbo that I bought for $585 back in '91. When I moved to NYC in '92, I was planning to sell it (the insurance was really high, and I didn't really need it), but it got stolen off the street. The funny thing is, the night before it got stolen, I got pulled over by the cops because -- wait for it -- they thought I was driving a stolen car! As it turns out, they were right, but early.

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So i atleast found out what one of my issues was. My anvil was way too high, and not the fun way. It was up around my belly button, oops. I built a new stand yesterday which is much shorter so should be a bunch better. Took a tip from beginner blacksmithing and practiced on some scrap pieces of pine, got even flat circle dents every time, which is promising.

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So here you go..   This is a basic overview  It's not a great quality video but will show one method of making a pan..   Larger pans in the normal range are easier to make, but this is the scrap I had handy..     

Ideally a round piece for an anvil makes the process easier.. I used what I had handy for the essence in showing how to create or follow the formation of the ripples which then are flattened..  

The center punch mark as well as the scribed line (outlining) the bottom should be on the outside...  This wasn't scripted or story boarded.. It was just a forge session with your question in mind..   All feed back is welcome.. 

Be sure and watch it soon as I'm not sure how long it will be left up as it was made simply to help you one your journey.. 

Took 50 minutes with setting up cameras, starting the forge, picking out metal, marking and cutting..  it took 6hrs to edit and another 2hrs to upload it..   This is the reason why videos or quality videos are hard to come by.. this comment it in regards to another thread. 

 

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Oh, it also has some editing mistakes towards the end with the PIP being in the wrong place.. I usually do a watch through the content to make sure everything is where it belongs, but skipped it to process this as quickly as possible.. Just had a chance to watch it so found the PIP errors just now..  Best. 

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On 10/22/2017 at 10:38 AM, JHCC said:

Nice video, Jennifer, even with the editing issues. Got me thinking what I can do to fix the issues with my own (half-finished) first pan. Thanks. 

  Thanks for acknowledging the post @JHCC..

Wow, i figured there would be more than 1 response after this much time elapsed, either positive or negative at least shows someone is thinking about it,  Or even saying I'm a hack or it's exemplary or offering others suggestions on how it was done or could be done,  but nope.. All dried up.. 

As for the other pan, your better off just to start again unless you have sentiment tied up in the old one.. I have found that I can massage the metal into just about any shape but at some point it would have been better use of the time to start over.. 

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Thank you so much.  Sorry I was outside all yesterday so I didn't see you had posted the video until today.  Thank you so much for putting in the time for this, it is really appreciated.  Unfortunately my students get back in ten minutes so I wont be able to finish the video quite yet, but the second the school day is over I will finish it up.  Hopefully I'll have enough light left to get some of this done. 

I only saw the first few minutes so far, but It looks really good and seems to be really clear.  A lot of videos I have seen are a little vague and confusing but from what I have seen of yours thus far is the exact opposite.  Hopefully the upload lasts till the day is over.  Again thank you so much. 

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1 hour ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Wow, i figured there would be more than 1 response after this much time elapsed, either positive or negative at least shows someone is thinking about it,  Or even saying I'm a hack or it's exemplary or offering others suggestions on how it was done or could be done,  but nope.. All dried up.. 

JLP, speaking for myself, I thoroughly enjoy reading and viewing your content. I am so far behind on your playlist, that it is painful.

But winter is coming, my equipment is out in the weather, and the boss is asking again about 7 nights a week........

Just want you to know that I am a big fan.......

Robert Taylor

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7 hours ago, jeremy k said:

Great Video Jennifer, I wish I had the video equipment to do such things - oh and the skills to edit such. I have used that same process to make not "pans" per say but many other things that required a dished form.

Well, here is also the other part..   It's nothing but money..  It just depends on where a person chooses to spend it..    No matter how you cut it, it's an investment and the people who are making videos daily or every other day are doing it for the money to be made vs just quality videos..   Anyhow,   Yes the technique is not new and it's very handy for such things.. 

As pointed out before this technique is known as shrinking vs sinking which is a different process and is covered in Jymm Hoffmans videos pretty decently.. 

5 hours ago, Anachronist58 said:

JLP, speaking for myself, I thoroughly enjoy reading and viewing your content. I am so far behind on your playlist, that it is painful.

But winter is coming, my equipment is out in the weather, and the boss is asking again about 7 nights a week........

Just want you to know that I am a big fan.......

Robert Taylor

Hi Robert, sorry if the blurb was sounding needy or unappreciated wasn't meant to.... I was really hoping it would offer food for thought and discussions based on the information..   Me saying this is how to do it and having so many other talented smiths I figured would open the door for discussions on technique or suggestion or such.. 

As for videos and no time, It will just mean you will have more sit time when yours free's up..   In the video "How to" Que  is trivet making with both a round trivet and a heart trivet, a true frying pan video, a pot making video, a hot hardie video, and a forge welded hardie swage with welded steel face..  This will fill out the time this winter I figure all of these will take around 120hrs worth of film editing if not more with about 20hrs of forge time.. :)  . 

6 hours ago, GandalftheGold said:

More finished than mine is, Far as I got yesterday was sanding the rust and coating off.  This is killing me right now, seeing the video sitting there and not being able to watch it. 

It will all work out..  Please report or question anything you come up with..  The idea is to share and there are no bad questions.. 

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21 hours ago, GandalftheGold said:

More finished than mine is, Far as I got yesterday was sanding the rust and coating off.  This is killing me right now, seeing the video sitting there and not being able to watch it. 

Totally get it. Between work, travel, and family, I'm lucky if I get the forge fired up a couple of times a month. 

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So I was able to watch the video the other day, but I finally had the time to sit down and write this.  I think that video was great.  I didn't really notice any editing issues, I may have just been to focused on the iron.   I honestly didn't realize you had a channel, which is my own fault for not paying attention.  I guess I found a bunch of videos I need to watch.  

I had definitely tried a different method on the three pans I have tried thus far.  I, forgive me if I mess up the terminology, tried the sinking method vs what you showed which I think is raising? Or is it folding?  Either way I was definitely doing this wrong and really appreciate that you made a video about this.  I had been treating the ripples like the plague, completely freaking out whenever one popped up on the rim.  I had no idea the whole reason the ripples pop up is uneven dispersal, which I really should have noticed, that needs to be worked out.  From what you showed, I can definitely see that if one tries sinking, and does it correctly unlike myself with proper spacing and strength of blows, the sides should all evenly slip together.  But the way you showed working with the ripples to evenly distribute the material makes a lot of sense and kinda brought the whole thing together.  I actually saw what was happening and it made the whole debacle make a lot more sense.  

I also agree with some of the youtube commenters on your double cam angles.  It gives a unique perspective that really helps one see exactly what is happening in each blow.  

And from what you showed with this I actually think I may be able to salvage that first pan I tried.  Ill have to flip it inside out but It should still work just fine.  

Im also pretty excited because I can use what you showed to make a whole slue of things, granted I learned anything from your video.  Drip pans, small candle holders, cooking pots, simmer pots, bowls, I’m quite excited to see what, if anything, I can do with this.  

I know rr track anvils are pretty bad, but the track pretty much fell in my lap so it’s what I am using.  I did however leave the last couple inches of the end of mine still rounded off so It should actually work pretty well for this one thing.  I have another three or four feet of track so I may make an actually bowl making apparatus out of a piece of it.  

 

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1 hour ago, GandalftheGold said:

So I was able to watch the video the other day, but I finally had the time to sit down and write this.  I think that video was great.  I didn't really notice any editing issues, I may have just been to focused on the iron.   I honestly didn't realize you had a channel, which is my own fault for not paying attention.  I guess I found a bunch of videos I need to watch.  

I had definitely tried a different method on the three pans I have tried thus far.  I, forgive me if I mess up the terminology, tried the sinking method vs what you showed which I think is raising? Or is it folding?  Either way I was definitely doing this wrong and really appreciate that you made a video about this.  I had been treating the ripples like the plague, completely freaking out whenever one popped up on the rim.  I had no idea the whole reason the ripples pop up is uneven dispersal, which I really should have noticed, that needs to be worked out.  From what you showed, I can definitely see that if one tries sinking, and does it correctly unlike myself with proper spacing and strength of blows, the sides should all evenly slip together.  But the way you showed working with the ripples to evenly distribute the material makes a lot of sense and kinda brought the whole thing together.  I actually saw what was happening and it made the whole debacle make a lot more sense.  

I also agree with some of the youtube commenters on your double cam angles.  It gives a unique perspective that really helps one see exactly what is happening in each blow.  

And from what you showed with this I actually think I may be able to salvage that first pan I tried.  Ill have to flip it inside out but It should still work just fine.  

Im also pretty excited because I can use what you showed to make a whole slue of things, granted I learned anything from your video.  Drip pans, small candle holders, cooking pots, simmer pots, bowls, I’m quite excited to see what, if anything, I can do with this.  

I know rr track anvils are pretty bad, but the track pretty much fell in my lap so it’s what I am using.  I did however leave the last couple inches of the end of mine still rounded off so It should actually work pretty well for this one thing.  I have another three or four feet of track so I may make an actually bowl making apparatus out of a piece of it.  

 

This technique is actually called shrinking..     Or in blacksmithing terms you are upsetting the metal back into itself..  The parts that are around the ripple support or hold it so it (the V) can be forced down back into itself..  this was a very basic video but there are some short cuts or techniques which can speed it up as well as get you out of trouble if you go to far.. The V's if to sharply formed will cut themselves off with cold shuts.. 

Sinking is when you use a form like wood or metal and drive the metal into it till you get the correct depth or shape.. 

Raising is when you hit the metal downwards but the metal detail moves upwards because of the displacement of the metal just lowered...  This can be seen in Repousse work, and chasing.. 

The Rail road track stood on end would be perfect for this as it moves you into a standing position upright.. I had to bend over to use the heel of the anvil.. Ideally doing this over a round block with rounded corners (radiused edges) will offer you an easier method.. 

Things to avoid are sharp corners or edges on your anvils.. 

What I did in the video was okay for me with a starting object because of the level of experience.. Reason why I am saying this is : I did not true up the circle once it was cut nor did I smooth off the edges of the disk.. These are safety things as well as giving you a good point to start from..   I just pulled more metal into the area that wasn't round but it's not something you will even notice in the video.. 

With that being said, be sure and clean up and debur the edge of the pans or pots before you start..   

Also another little tidbit.. This method shown used a tapered side wall.. This is important to realize as the taper round the bottom helps keep things in proper position while shrinking.. If you are doing this on thin flat sheet the bottom will distort and unless it is tensioned properly will warp as soon as you go to cook food in it though it was pretty flat when made.. 

The bottom of the pan I made is 1/8" thick while the sides at the top were 1/16" when started and because of being shrunk the metal got thicker.. 

 

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Then I had tried raising not sinking. 

Trust me, I learned my lesson on cleaning up the burs.  When I made the ones out of roasting pans, about 1/16th sheet, I cut it out with tinsnips and forgot to file off the burrs.   Most of my 20 some odd nicks and cuts have finally healed up, I still have about five to go.  I do have many a log lying around so I may as well try sinking sometime too. 

I have special, depth perception, and fine motor skill issues galore so unfortunately I could try to true up that circle as much as I want from the beginning and I will never get it, unless I find something to use as a guide that isn't my eyes and wont be destroyed by a grinder or get in the way of a jig saw.  From my past experiences no amount of scoring or drawing lines really helps me stay on track.  I am that guy that cuts a wavy line using a circular saw no matter how hard I try not to.  I have even used the circular saws with the laser guides and still managed to make my cuts look like rolling hills.  I should at least be able to line up the inner score marks for the shrinking process but I doubt the outer line that I cut will actually be circular, but it will be close as I can get it.  I was going to even the outsides up after the sides had all been raised up, or shrunk I guess.  Whatever happens with it I will make due. 

Sadly I have had a little trouble finding sheet steel.  The dealer I have been using usually only has 1/16 or thinner in stock in drops, their cutting prices are pretty ridiculous for sheets.  And the only scrap place who has bothered to call me back or be open during their posted hours only has 3/16ths.  At least it will make one heavy beast of a pan. 

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1 hour ago, GandalftheGold said:

Then I had tried raising not sinking. 

 

Sadly I have had a little trouble finding sheet steel.  The dealer I have been using usually only has 1/16 or thinner in stock in drops, their cutting prices are pretty ridiculous for sheets.  And the only scrap place who has bothered to call me back or be open during their posted hours only has 3/16ths.  At least it will make one heavy beast of a pan. 

3/16" is perfect for pans if limited in size.. 8" or 10" and if you are cooking on open fire or coals then 12" or larger it works great.. 

The only thing is getting the rim forged down enough (ideally less than 1/2 the thickness) so it has a good feel to it..  When you shrink the side wall back in it will gain back some of the thickness.. A 40lbs pan is no fun to use unless it's a big or fire used frying pan.. 

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43 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

3/16" is perfect for pans if limited in size.. 8" or 10" and if you are cooking on open fire or coals then 12" or larger it works great.. 
 

I was able to fit two discs onto one of the sheets I have, one for the fire, one for the stove.  I was going to make a cooking grate kinda thing for it to be used on the fire as well.  Pretty much a spiral trivet with longer pegs, probably not the best way but it is the way I want to try.  If nothing else I get a sort of trivet out of it. 

This also probably isn't the best Idea but for the handle of the fire one I have some old tent poles from my godfathers military tent, basically just steel tubes.  It probably wont quite be strong enough but we shall see.  I figure if I already have them, why go buy something else if what I have might just work.  I have burned my arm hair off cooking on the fire way to many times so I want the longest handle I can possibly make without it being too ridiculous. 

I also learned my lesson about thinning the sides.  That was the main reason the first one had so many issues.  That and I whaled on it excessively for like no reason, got a wee bit carried away. 

 

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going to do one where you take 3 pieces of stock and forge weld 3+/-" on the end of two pieces and bend them apart and forge weld the 3rd piece to those ends and bend down for the feet? (heavier feet are good if they will be used in a wood cook fire...)

I did a bunch like that over the years; but I up and sold or gave away all of them...sigh

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My current plan, which Ill try today if the rain lets up, was to take a six ish foot piece of rebar and roll it on itself leaving about an inch to two inches, I haven't decided yet, between the pieces of metal, punch four quarter inch holes on the outside and possibly a fifth dead center, take the small 12 inch rebar pieces I have draw out the ends thread them through the holes then upset the drawn out portion to basically rivet it in place.  I'm pretty sure that isn't a trivet which is why I had used the prefix basically.  If the upsetting doesn't work I was going to try a method of fixing I saw in a  book which is to force the cold piece you want fixed into the cherry red hole and let it cool down, theoretically as it cools it should shrink and grip the rebar, especially with all the rough texture marks rebar is covered with.  I'm sure you all know what that is,  I just cant remember what it is called off the top of my head. 
I would like to one day make an actual set of trivets which will first require reading the section in two of my books, and watching a bunch of videos. 

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6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

going to do one where you take 3 pieces of stock and forge weld 3+/-" on the end of two pieces and bend them apart and forge weld the 3rd piece to those ends and bend down for the feet? (heavier feet are good if they will be used in a wood cook fire...)

I did a bunch like that over the years; but I up and sold or gave away all of them...sigh

No,  they will be riveted feet..

Trivets can be very elaborate both riveted and welded designs but have found that the riveted feet type to be more popular in the area.. (this type survived better)

The simple welded feet triangle ones were or I should say popular I guess because of the ease to make..  (but you see a lot less)

maybe I'll make 3 examples as they all take forge welding which for a lot can be a problem..  Collared trivets are much more popular today and is usually what is shown in examples in magazines and such.. 

I was thinking of a round trivet to start with as it only needs the one forge weld and even if the person can't weld  they can still successfully put it together even if the weld doesn't take, simply because they can still punch the scarf and then rivet it together.. 

 

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10 minutes ago, GandalftheGold said:

My current plan, which Ill try today if the rain lets up, was to take a six ish foot piece of rebar and roll it on itself leaving about an inch to two inches, I haven't decided yet, between the pieces of metal, punch four quarter inch holes on the outside and possibly a fifth dead center, take the small 12 inch rebar pieces I have draw out the ends thread them through the holes then upset the drawn out portion to basically rivet it in place.  I'm pretty sure that isn't a trivet which is why I had used the prefix basically.  If the upsetting doesn't work I was going to try a method of fixing I saw in a  book which is to force the cold piece you want fixed into the cherry red hole and let it cool down, theoretically as it cools it should shrink and grip the rebar, especially with all the rough texture marks rebar is covered with.  I'm sure you all know what that is,  I just cant remember what it is called off the top of my head. 
I would like to one day make an actual set of trivets which will first require reading the section in two of my books, and watching a bunch of videos. 

Here is just some food for thought.. 

FYI,  it certainly will work..and I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but that can be a lot of work..    A traditional trivet uses a minimal amount of material to get the job done.. 

You would be better off with using straight bars with a 90D bend at each end with collars on them..  If you forge a groove around each bar , just below the bend you can fit the collar into this and then it will make the trivet able to fold up for storage as well as add some uniqueness to the trivet.. 

if you didn't feel comfortable making collars you could forge down the ends and make it so one end of the bar has a short section which fits into a slot or collar and then you can take it completely apart..  

Maybe I'll make one of these as there is no forge welding and it could be a fun project.. 

 

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5 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

 degwould be better off with using straight bars with a 90D bend at each end with collars on them..  If you forge a groove around each bar , just below the bend you can fit the collar into this and then it will make the trivet able to fold up for storage as well as add some uniqueness to the trivet.. 

if you didn't feel comfortable making collars you could forge down the ends and make it so one end of the bar has a short section which fits into a slot or collar and then you can take it completely apart..  

Maybe I'll make one of these as there is no forge welding and it could be a fun project.. 

 

I'm pretty sure I get what you mean with the collar, Just a thin flat bar or thin stock wrapped around the sides of the pieces being held together.  But as it is rather early I am having trouble envisioning how that would allow it to fold.  Although I'm thinking about this with four collars but if you were saying two I can sort of envision it kind of.  If I had square stock that didn't require an hour drive to go get I would totally do that.  I have one long ish piece but I'm not sure if it will be quite long enough, Ill go measure it in a bit to see what can be done.

Rolling the rebar may take forever, but It seems like a fun waste of time.  I also really need practice with punching, the last time I did it I really screwed up what I was working on.  I'm pretty sure I used a center punch by accident.  I didn't really know what I was doing, I still don't, but I at least know the difference between all my punches now. 

I think it all just came together in my head. Were you saying use the square stock to make two halves of a square/ rectangle then 90 degree bend those ends outward and collar them together?  I totally see how that can fold. 

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