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Which shop are you going to visit?  I have only met a few of the guys from NH but they are all quite nice.  The NEB training facility is quite well stocked with equipment and is in Brentwood, NH.  Members can go to the open forge sessions there every month and get support/ideas from the experienced people there.

Either way, you have a lot of talented NEB membership in your area and should be tapping it.   Good luck!

Lou

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Birch wine is also pretty great from what I hear.  I was kicking my self this spring because i was out of town for the first part of tapping season then forgot about it when i got back. Birch season is only like three or four weeks long.

I am going to a place called choice metals. They seem nice and from what I saw on the website and what they said on the phone it seems pretty great.  It is also only a town over which out of sheer laziness is nice. 

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Must be "thickly settled" out your way, "next town over" can be a 100 mile drive out this-a-way.  (to use the "walmart scale" to get from my casita to my house and shop is 50 miles between the first two walmarts, then 72 miles and then 70 miles and that is along the interstate where towns cluster!)

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So I was able to pick up the materials today from a scrap yard.  They didnt quite have the diameter pipe I was looking to get for my pseudo swage block but it will work. It will be a tid bit small but that really isn't a big deal. I don't think I have time to do it today or tomorrow which is rather sad, but hopefully this weekend I'll get on that.

20171005_163822.jpg

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Is that how you tapped the birch tree, Frosty? Any New Englander will tell you that you have to tap the maple trees!

FYI, Birch trees also have sap and it is quite deliousous.. 

 

If you are going to forge a pan, the best or easiest way is with a form that you can just clamp the blank into after the edges have been forged thinner.. 

There are a million ways to forge or make anything but uniess you have free form forging experience on larger sheets 12" or 14" it can be a futile experience..  

 

Reason is you are shrinking the folded over edge of the pan.. Anyhow with guidance it's a pretty fast learning curve but doing it on your own can be tough.. 

The edge of the pan should be thinned to the bottom which should be left thick..  The transition or where you are going to bend it is where the sides are thinned back to.. 

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The method I saw in a few articles and good ole youtube which I was going to try, was to cut the circle, place it over some sort of cavity, which would be the pipe, and set the disk inside with either a piece of curved stock or tapping a hammer with a hammer to fold the sides up.  It seemed like trying to bend the sides them selves caused a lot of ripples and waves which required a lot of time to straighten out.  If you have a better method I would love to hear it.  I am also not sure if I explained it all that well, or if I even understand it all that well.  If it works, I have a pan, if it doesn't,  I have a sculpture and memories of what not to do.

I am probably going to make the disk nine or ten inches.  Like I said, small pan.

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The method I saw in a few articles and good ole youtube which I was going to try, was to cut the circle, place it over some sort of cavity, which would be the pipe, and set the disk inside with either a piece of curved stock or tapping a hammer with a hammer to fold the sides up.  It seemed like trying to bend the sides them selves caused a lot of ripples and waves which required a lot of time to straighten out.  If you have a better method I would love to hear it.  I am also not sure if I explained it all that well, or if I even understand it all that well.  If it works, I have a pan, if it doesn't,  I have a sculpture and memories of what not to do.

I am probably going to make the disk nine or ten inches.  Like I said, small pan.

The methods you mentioned will work,  But There are finer ways to do it.. 

The rippling is because the material is in an upset position and if you ask me is the correct way to do it..   With a gas torch and a form for pan making it would take about 15minutes once the disk is shaped and the sides thinned  to make a 10 or 12" skillet.. 

The rippling is because the material on the outside is longer than the inside and these ripples are where the material is upset back into itself.. Thus the reason to thin them down before starting as they will gain in thickness as the pan is formed.. 

ideally pans should have thicker bottoms and thinner sides when finished.. Or at least higher quality pans will.. 

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The ripples are not because the material is upset back into itself---it's where the material HAS to be upset back into itself.

Easy gedanken experiment: take a 12" circle you are going to make into a 10" pan---the outside edge of the disk is about 37.7" in circumference. Now if you bend it up for a straight walled pan, the edge of a 10" pan is  about 31.4" so you have about 6" extra length you have to do something with.  It forms ripples naturally but if you want a smooth side you need to shrink it down to 31.4" by upsetting the material in the ripples into itself---making it thicker and not as "long".

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@ThomasPowers can correct me on this, but the two basic options are to push the metal out, like blowing a bubble (this is called "sinking") and to bring the sides up and upset them onto themselves as described above (this is called "raising"). In the first method, the rim stays the same as its original thickness and circumference, but the bottom gets thinner. In the second, the circumference gets smaller and the edges get thicker, but the bottom keeps its original thickness.

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The ripples are not because the material is upset back into itself---it's where the material HAS to be upset back into itself.

 by upsetting the material in the ripples into itself---making it thicker and not as "long".

Read it again.. YES it is..  The rippling is because the material on the outside is longer than the inside and these ripples are where the material is upset back into itself..  Thus the reason to thin them down before starting as they will gain in thickness as the pan is formed.. 

These ripples are then forged in..  I can hardly believe I am having to explain it to someone of your caliber..  It's written correctly just not to your liking.. 

 

@ThomasPowers can correct me on this, but the two basic options are to push the metal out, like blowing a bubble (this is called "sinking") and to bring the sides up and upset them onto themselves as described above (this is called "raising"). In the first method, the rim stays the same as its original thickness and circumference, but the bottom gets thinner. In the second, the circumference gets smaller and the edges get thicker, but the bottom keeps its original thickness.

Yes..  to both, but ideally the bottom of the pan should be the thickest part and is the reason to thin the sides..  Whether raised or sinking as it's applied to pan making.. 
 

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so are you saying I draw out the rims of the disk before I raise the sides or are you saying I should hit them with a grinder.

 

  I was going to hit the center of the disk into the depression of the pipe.  I could try folding the sides over but I don't really have anything for that other than a log.  I will probably try the log at some point but who knows. 

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I still maintain that if you have ripples that the material has not been upset into itself; (or not enough); just bent up and it then needs to be upset into itself to use up the excess length.  Take your caliper and mike the ripples, they won't be that different from the parent stock.  then upset them into themselves and mike it they will be thicker.

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Seems like most folk think you need a pan, bowl, spoon, etc. swage, it's urban myth. Draw your initial circle for the transition from the side to the bottom of the pan. You can start the bend either by driving into a V with a small pein  or over a slightly radiused edge. Work around the circle till you start to get rippling. 

Now using a  swage and a straight or cross pein crease around the rim. The rim will come right up for you, when it's close to perpendicular OR the creases start crowding lay the rim on either a round faced anvil OR stand it up on a flat face. Round anvil goes inside the pan, flat on the outside.

Now drive the creases flat. If you're using something as heavy as 10ga. 1/8" sheet doing it hot is the way to go. If shrinking thin sheet or non-ferrous like silver, copper, etc. then crease, anneal, plannish, anneal, repeat as necessary.

Trying to hammer sheet into a bottom die and getting a good match can be more hassle than it's worth for a lot of shapes. Besides shrinking is easy and a lot of fun.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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On 10/6/2017 at 4:01 PM, Frosty said:

Seems like most folk think you need a pan, bowl, spoon, etc. swage, it's urban myth. Draw your initial circle for the transition from the side to the bottom of the pan. You can start the bend either by driving into a V with a small pein  or over a slightly radiused edge. Work around the circle till you start to get rippling. 

Frosty said exactly what I was referring to..  Thanks.. 

On 10/6/2017 at 2:26 PM, ThomasPowers said:

I still maintain that if you have ripples that the material has not been upset into itself; (or not enough); just bent up and it then needs to be upset into itself to use up the excess length.  Take your caliper and mike the ripples, they won't be that different from the parent stock.  then upset them into themselves and mike it they will be thicker.

Frosty said exactly what I was referring to.. 

In blacksmithing we call, taking long and skinny and making it shorter and fatter as upsetting..  In sheet metal or plate work it's called Shrinking.  

Shrinking of sheet metal will make the sheet slightly thicker in the areas that have been shrunk vs the surrounding areas.. 

The ripple is used as a way to bend the metal upwards and this allows for the parts or if you would the waves at the bottom. Or bottom of the wave to hold the top of the wave as you pound it down..  The bottom of the wave or ripples will try to hold position before they deflect giving you a chance to force, forge, upset or shrink the longer radius into a shorter/smaller radius..  (thus upsetting it locally)

thomaspowers I think you know exactly what I'm referring to as you, yourself have much experience,,    Correcting someone whom doesn't have the experiencing to push them in the right direction commendable but to have a reaction as to ripples and upsetting and thicknesses and such is counter productive.. 

Length in this case is how long the radius is..   Making a pan, pot, caldron, any vessel with that shape as @rosty pointed out there are 2 basic ways each one will offer a slightly different result.. 

As I pointed out before  I'd rather raise the sides as I like a thinner side with a thicker bottom and if I forge the sides down from the radius of the inside of the object it will give me that transition point I am looking for when I do my preform on the pan, pot, etc, etc. and create the ripples to take up before I push the top of the wave back down to upset the localized area, or shrink the radius.. 

On 10/6/2017 at 3:37 PM, GandalftheGold said:

Or do I do both or something else entirely.

I am a blacksmith..  By choice Nearly 97% of my work is done at the forge and anvil.. The other 3% is clean up or fitting or polish work..  With that in mind everything is forged.. 

1minute at the forge and anvil is 20minutes at the grinder or file/vise.. 

I currently have 3 different video "How to's" on the list..  Pan making is one of them..   They are extremely easy to make with just a few tools and can be fun projects..  

Few instructions..      3/16" thick is what I'd start with.. 1/8" at a minimum..  find the center of the sheet you want to start with,, Center punch it.. With a set of dividers set them for 4.5" for a 10" pan, or 5.5" for a 12" pan..    

Now take the dividers and scribe a line all the way around to get a 9" circle or a 10.5" circle..  Now mark a second line about 1.5" from the first.. Or 6" and 7" respectively..   This will give you between a 2-2.5" side wall height depending on how much you thin out from that first circle..  Then cut out at second line or largest diameter..  

Some of the forge work can be done cold if using 1/8" and this will speed up the process for your first pan.. hit from the far side and drive the hammer back towards you in a pulling motion.. This will help to pull the metal towards you, stretching it faster..  Try to keep things an even thickness for a given radius.. 

Anyhow, it's really not hard and it can be a lot of fun..   

Personally I don't like using a wooden stump or form for doing heavier pots and pans and the wood burns to easily.. I like a fixture jig for ease and speed and if I am going to be making one at a show or the like I like a positive mold.. 

 

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The topic seems to be going in a completely different direction, but you might take note that copper is not good for cookware, as the oxides tend to be poisonous and/or you get copper in your food from cooking acidic stuff.  It won't kill you probably, but you won't be happy, and you'll be hanging out near the toilet a lot for awhile.  Bronze, being a copper alloy should have the same problems.  It's why copper cookware nowadays is usually lined with stainless steel.  Classicly, it was lined with tin, which I suppose wouldn't be too hard to do.

On the other hand, copper mixing bowls are GREAT for whipping egg whites. But you have to clean the dickens out of them immediately before every use.

 

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Copper is great for cookware with very even heating due to the high thermal conductivity---very much higher than cast iron.  Yes you need to tin line it and yes it is easy to do. (I was successful on my first try!)  Many of the top restaurants in the world use copper cookware and often have a contract with someone to retin them on a regular basis.  Now a superior metal for cookware would be pure gold, excellent thermal conductivity and very no-stick and inert!  (National Geographic had a gold frying pan made and tested for an article on gold several decades ago.)

Some other things that are not good to use because you have to take proper precautions:

Cast Iron pans will rust unless properly seasoned.

Rhubarb is not good for pies/jam as the leaves are poisonous

Gasoline is not good for cars because it's a big fire/explosion danger

Coal, coke and propane/natural gas are not good for forges because they give off toxic gasses when they are burned.

Water is not good for people because you can drown in it if you don't treat it right.

The internet is not good for people as it raises their blood pressure....

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