jeks Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I recently picked up this 410 lb. Hay Budden anvil which was sitting on a post as an address marker. Paid $800, so $2/lb, which isn't bad in New England these days. It is serial number A15361 which puts it at 1894 vintage. The face is in great shape, however, the heel is broken off at the 1 3/8" Hardy hole. If there was a Pritchel hole, it is gone. The face should be between 23 and 24 inches long according to AIA. Mine is 18" at the longest dimension where it broke off. The inside face of the Hardy is at 16". I can use the anvil as-is, but would eventually like to repair it. I have read the article from Gunther and Schuler, but this is probably more applicable to small fixes. I am thinking I can cut the heel off flush with the inside face of the Hardy hole, and weld a new piece of steel, machined ahead of time, back in place. I would use heavily chamfered edges and many passes to fill the weld area and might make it shallow on the face so I can build up tool steel in that area with weld rod. I can weld, but would probably give this to the pros to have it done properly. I expect the steel, which I can machine and the welding would add $400-500 to the total cost, putting me around $3/lb total cost for a nice heavy anvil. I'm looking for thoughts and suggestions. Thanks, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusb Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Looks newer than 1894 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeks Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 Interesting, Marcus. I think you're right. Am I maybe reading the serial number wrong? Does the A change the designation? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick S Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 As it sits it's quite magnificent. It's most likely an even hardness across the top. The preheat and the heat affected zone from welding would soften the repaired end. I shudder thinking about trying to heat treat that monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 The "A" prefix for HB started in 1918.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Yes the A makes a huge difference: HB added A to the serial numbers and started counting from 0 again in 1918 so A 12001 through A 2000 were made in 1919 Now I am going to come in from the other side on this one. The welding will be done around the hardy hole area, an area that does not see much heavy pounding in my usage and if the area around the hardy hole is topped off using the Gunther method it should be OK. Now you do have to watch out to not draw temper on the USING face. As this anvil dates to after the 'one piece top' the entire weld will be done on high carbon steel and will require preheat post slow cool! I know a weldor, Instructor of weldors, and a highly skilled smith out here I would trust to do it right. I would suggest asking other smiths for the best one out in your area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charcold Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Personally I wouldnt touch a repair attempt like that with a 10 foot pole. I'm no expert welder but for me it's just a what's on the line versus what's gained proposition. You'd gain a hardy hole and pritchel, and risk the hardness of the anvil as well as the aesthetic of it being original. I've seen pictures where people attempted to repair similar defects and they end up with what looks like a Frankenstein, when they were shooting for a "restoration". There are very simple solutions to not having a hardy and pritchel. And post-repair I wouldn't feel good about striking on the hardy area 2 handed. IMO make yourself a hardy holder and something to use in place of a pritchel and use that ample face area for your work. take what i say with a grain of salt, i'm new, haven't repaired an anvil, etc etc. would just hate to read about another sad story from a failed restore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Use the anvil for a year before you make any decisions. A year would be defined as 2000 hours of beating hot metal on the anvil, not just having the shop lights turned on. That should give you time to find a qualified repair person and get an accurate estimate for having the repairs done. It will get you time to find a second anvil with a hardie and prichel hole, so you can compare the two prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Use it as-is and get/make a portable hole for any hardy tooling. Attempting to "repair" it won't add to the value, more likely it will reduce it and the heat input from that much welding will impact the hardness of the existing face. I wouldn't want to think about re-heat treating an anvil that big. I'm glad you saved it from a life as an address marker, put it to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 It's a feature, not a bug. Now you have a nice little straightening bridge area to work with. A portable hole is so easy and actually has it's own benefits---I wouldn't touch that beautiful anvil as even the best repair simply wouldn't be a benefit large enough to make the process desirable or of value. Risk vs reward--and the risk is high here for a very low reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Use it as is and make a portable hole as said before. Will be way less expensive and no risk of damaging the anvil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeks Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 OK, thank you for all the recommendations folks. Seeing as I have another smaller anvil (140 lb. I Hill) with Hardy and Pritchell, I'm going to hold off on the repair and use this a bit. Of course, when I have my first block of free time, it is wirewheel and beeswax/linseed oil bath for this Hay Budden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman7 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I'd repair it, but I would be able to do the repair myself so that changes the economics. Shouldn't be too hard to keep the face below 400 F or so by using a temple stick. With that much mass, temperatures are not going to be changing very fast. I had to laugh at the don't risk damaging it comments. As if breaking off the heel was not damage. If someone had repaired it 50 years ago, would it be worth less, or would it be part of it's history? Even if it was somewhat botched. As long as the temper wasn't drawn on the face it would be no worse off. If it was ugly enough just cut it off again and you are back to what you have now. Not mine so what ever you decide is what is right. Just posting my opinion. I've had customers hand me a broken, beat , distorted, often repaired and broken again, piece of hardware with glue all over it, and tell me not to ruin it. Hahaha. Edit; Just saw that you have another anvil. I guess if you have the room to have both anvils in the proximity of the forge there is no need for the repair, but also less need for the broken anvil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charcold Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 A cast iron ASO piece of junk isn't "broken". but it's not usable either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I see the nib as a useful feature, kind of like a clip horn on a farrier pattern anvil. I would just smooth up the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 My brother gave me a chunk of dozer wear plate today with 8? nice sized square holes in it, I'll probably be passing it on to a student who needs a hardy hole(s) to go with his cube of steel anvil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeks Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 Thomas, thank you. I was given a dozer plate as well, so know exactly what you mean. I'm going to use a piece of it for a removable / portable hardy as was suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Cattleman Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Could always square it up some with a abrasive chop saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyassforge Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Once I bought a hay budden which had a very similar problem. To repair it, we took a piece of 1-1/4" thick 4140 plate which we had and cut out a "second horn" end for it. It was set to where it gapped out a bit and welded it 100% on both sides. I also welded it underneath to make the lines flow under the heel. The end of the heel was then thinned to approximate the side profile of an original hay budden. I went ahead and hard surfaced the face of the 4140 piece and repaired the edges of the anvil while I was at it. I have lost most of my pictures in a computer crash but I found this one. One thing of interest is that there was a scan of a hay budden brochure which listed the tapered heel as an option back then. Not sure the multiple pritchtel holes were offered but I thought "why not?" We have forged on the anvil quite a bit including striking on the heel area with a 6-8 pound sledge without breaking it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Hmm Double horned HB could be very useful and sure to drive the "what kind of anvil do I have?" people crazy in 100 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeks Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 Lazy, that is exactly what I was thinking. However, the face is 6 1/4" wide and I'm having trouble sourcing plate at least that wide and 3" thick in almost any steel. Did you use 4140 because you had it, or because you wanted a steel wth it's strength, hardening ability, etc?... Also, what rod did you use to hard face it? thanks - John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Stop by my favorite scrapyard, they have quite a bit in 4" plate; I just sold on a 4"x8"x8" piece for US$25 Sunday that I had got from there. (72.5 pounds IIRC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyassforge Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 The 4140 was something I had. A-36 plate would have been just as good. The extra thickness is only needed at the end of the repair piece around the hardie hole, it can be built up with weld in that area. Like Thomas said, the scrap yard is probably the best source unless you happen to work at a machine shop like I do! The repair job is not all that hard, don't get hung up on having to have the perfect plate, see what you can find and figure out how it will work for you. I only put that anvil up to offer an idea of one way to do it. I used to look for anvils which were in sad shape and see what I could do to bring them back into usable shape. I have had quite a bit of experience using Rob Gunther's method of repairing the top and also re-welding an entirely new top plate. I have also repaired a couple which were broken in two at the waist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I plan to go to the scrapyard Saturday morning. Got a request that will fit in a flat rate box/weight limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeks Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Thomas, thanks for the generous offer, but I'll find something local I'm sure. I have it in mind to visit my local scrap yard this weekend. Take care - J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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