barn knife

[paradox1559]

I was playing with horse shoes and I ended up with a knife. 

Its perfect to keep in the barn for cutting hay open, but I would like your opinions.

I have a ton of people who want these, but I don't think horse shoes are made to hold an edge. That said, I don't want to sell something that won't hold up, I'm trying to build a reputation.

[arkie]

Even though horseshoes, and other mild steels, don't harden like higher carbon steels you can achieve a "little" bit more hardening to hold an edge a bit better by making up some "Super Quench". It's a combination of water, salt (maybe soap?) and a surfactant like Jet Dry. Search for the detailed formula...I don't have it handy right now. I've tried it with limited success.

[ThomasPowers]

KLO:  even with superquench you won't get a good knife from mild steel. (unless you forgeweld a good steel edge material to it...)

[paradox1559]

Well, that's a bummer. I suppose I could try making shoes with better steel and work from there.

[Will W.]

Or just do like Thomas said and weld a high carbon bit in. 

[Frosty]

You know, if you're building a market with horse people then making a real horse shoe knife isn't a bad idea at all. Shoers make horse shoes all the time, no reason not to make horse shoe knife blanks from good steel. You aren't making a whole horse shoe, not even half just enough to represent the end of one with crease and nail holes.

It'd be far less effort and time than welding a high carbon bit in a real shoe then forging a blade. 

Save old shoes for hoof picks, those are fast, really fast and easy. = cheap. Seriously if a guy can't forge two hoof picks form an old horse shoe in under 10 minutes s/he needs more practice. Easy $5.00.  

Hmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[paradox1559]

I don't have the knowlage, flux, or tools for that. With these blades the idea was to xxxx out as many as possible, while maintaining usability. 

I'm unemployed atm so I'm limited in the materials I can get, You will never see new steel in my bin. 

I 

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

You know, if you're building a market with horse people then making a real horse shoe knife isn't a bad idea at all. Shoers make horse shoes all the time, no reason not to make horse shoe knife blanks from good steel. You aren't making a whole horse shoe, not even half just enough to represent the end of one with crease and nail holes.

It'd be far less effort and time than welding a high carbon bit in a real shoe then forging a blade. 

Save old shoes for hoof picks, those are fast, really fast and easy. = cheap. Seriously if a guy can't forge two hoof picks form an old horse shoe in under 10 minutes s/he needs more practice. Easy $5.00.  

Hmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

I have so many horse shoes its ridiculous. Most ferriers in my area bring their old shoes and rasps to me. I've made many hoof picks, and halter hangers, and I agree, they are easy money. 

I'll take an old leaf spring and make myself a fullering tool so I can get that nail ridge in there. 

[Buzzkill]

While forge welding may be the preferred way to put high carbon on, it's not the only way.  Mr. Lincoln or Mr. Hobart can also help here.  Knife blades should be a quarter inch thick or less, and if you prepare the pieces properly then weld from both sides you should be able to create a solid piece of steel.   Then just forge out your welds and the cutting edge.  It's unlikely it would even be noticeable unless you etch the piece.  Of course that assumes you have access to a welder.

[paradox1559]

6 minutes ago, Buzzkill said:

While forge welding may be the preferred way to put high carbon on, it's not the only way.  Mr. Lincoln or Mr. Hobart can also help here.  Knife blades should be a quarter inch thick or less, and if you prepare the pieces properly then weld from both sides you should be able to create a solid piece of steel.   Then just forge out your welds and the cutting edge.  It's unlikely it would even be noticeable unless you etch the piece.  Of course that assumes you have access to a welder.

You mean, arc weld a bead onto the blade then forge it down?  Why is this the first I'm hearing of this?!? I have 3 arc welders, a mig, and limited access to a tig.

[Frosty]

Coil spring is easiest to make blades from. Leaf is attractive but there are more problems keeping it from recurving to sillyness. A coil with 5/8" wire is more than enough and should be free for the asking if you can't find one in a ditch or the farm junk pile. 

Buzzkill is right, arc welding higher carbon steel to a shoe is doable. If you have an oxy acet torch you can gas weld high carbon to the shoe without having to buy special rod. Coat hanger is medium carbon and spring steel is generally around 60 pts. Carbon. An old screen door spring is maybe a little light but it'll work. Look around. Be careful light springs are often galvanized, a soak in vinegar might be called for!

Forge weld without flux. Find an appropriate piece of HC steel, hay fork tine, old spring etc. shine it and the shoe up good and wrap them in a piece of sheet steel like a taco. A few drops of light oil, 3 in 1 is perfect, Wesson is good but new motor oil will work okay. Bring it all up to high yellow and gently set the welds.

There are LOTS of inexpensive ways to make those into real knives. Remember cheaper is more work and time. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[paradox1559]

Well, ill certainly give it a try, I'm pretty sure I have high carbon rods laying around. I would want to etch it so that pattern pops out I feel I could knock on a couple bucks for that.

[Frosty]

Cool. Pictures please, we LOVE pictures. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[paradox1559]

Ill update this post when I have some.

[Buzzkill]

34 minutes ago, paradox1559 said:

You mean, arc weld a bead onto the blade then forge it down? 

I actually meant welding a piece of high carbon steel to the horseshoe, but if you have hard facing rod or something else that will hold a good edge you could just run a bead or two of that on what would become the cutting edge and then forge it out.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Try diferent brands of shoe. Kerkhart's are hard, I have broken the head off of horses I forged on them. You still may need to use an aggressive quench. 

Or as sugjestud forge shoes from spring, then forge knives from those shoes. An othe approach would be to use the shoe as scales and a rasp as the blade. That's on my bucket list.

[Buzzkill]

Dang Charles.  Your broke the head off of horses?!?!?  And I thought you had a fondness for the equine critters.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Wa that an MFC? They use a soft wear resistant aloy 

I keep fantasizing about twisting the heads off owners...

[JHCC]

When the owner mistreats the horse, too often it's the farrier who pays the price.

[Charles R. Stevens]

To true that. All to often the best horseman/woman a horse sees is his farrier. 

[ThomasPowers]

Don't MESS with CRS!!!!! this public service announcement is supported by the letters B and S...

You don't forge horseshoes for horses from high carbon as they tend to act slippery when riding on hard surfaces if I recall Frank Turley correctly.

[JHCC]

Knowing nothing about farrier work, I suppose work hardening could be a problem?

[Hotshoein4 (Mark)]

 

 

Knowing nothing about farrier work, I suppose work hardening could be a problem?

I've never found work hardening to be a problem with any horseshoe makers. 

Yes it sounds easy to just put a crease in the shoe then punch and pritchel the nail holes, but no, it's not. Even just half a shoe. You want it to look right and not messed up. The client might not know, but I certainly do and wouldn't let garbage be sold or even given away. Anytime my clients want stuff made from shoes, I say no, factory shoes aren't cool, I'll just hand make it. They like that. 

So if you do want to just make half a shoe and a blade, I would suggest getting the proper tools and knowledge yo do so. I think doing it out of 1084 or something simular would be a great idea. Practice on mild steel though. It'll take time to learn it.

[JHCC]

 

I've never found work hardening to be a problem with any horseshoe makers. 

I'm not talking about making stuff out of horseshoes -- I'm asking if you were to make a horseshoe out of high-carbon steel, would such a shoe experience work hardening in normal use -- i.e., under a horse's foot?

I totally get hand making something rather than using a factory shoe, but that's not what I was (admittedly tangentially) asking. Not particularly germane to the discussion; I'm just curious.

[Charles R. Stevens]

 Once you forge a shoe, crease and punch it, any experianced smith should be off the th races. Nail placemeant is not as simple as it looks. I think this is what hotshoein is alluding to. 

Modern steels are all slick as snot on pavement, in my experiance. As Frank once pointed out Mexicans like that hard, nasty to forge cheep rebar for shoes. 

And TP, MFC is one of only a handful of brands that use 5 smallish nail holes instead of 4 per branch. Tho I do apretiate the chuckle

 

[Hotshoein4 (Mark)]

I was touching on a few posts there. Didn't make that overly clear. 

 

I'm not talking about making stuff out of horseshoes -- I'm asking if you were to make a horseshoe out of high-carbon steel, would such a shoe experience work hardening in normal use under a horse's foot?

Gotcha. There sure is a possibility of that. If i get my hands on some high carbon steel, id have no problem making shoes for a horse and trying it. Just have to keep it in the normalized state. We tend to quench everything. Lol. That would be a fun experiment for sure.

I know mild steel is super slick on horses, it would be interesting to see if high carbon steel effects it more. Honestly though, some horses slide around more than others