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My buddy told me to try and flip the tank upside down and the back again, said the valve might be stuck, but yeah this was a swap on a swap on a... I'm probably screwed on this one. 

I think your buddy has given you bad advice. As I understand it portable propane tanks need to be kept upright. Laying them down or upside down will damage the safety valve and that is probably what happened with your tank. As Thomas said swap it out.

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Nothing happens to a tank if you put it upside down, in fact that is how you decant from a larger tank to a smaller one, done it many times. Upside down you open the valve and you get liquid propane. Upright you get gas.  The safety valve is just a pin wiht a spring that opens up if the pressure exceeds  the safe limit just like an expresso coffee machine. Of course the regulator can not take liquid propane so if you put the tank upside down and open the valve you put liquid gas in the regulator. 

Depending on who refills the tanks it is possible to find some muck at the bottom of the tank including water, so if you turn it down some of that muck can block the opening. Easy to test, just keep it upright take the hose and regulator off and open the valve. Do this outside of course and you should get a lot of gas blowing out. If you don't, your tank is blocked. You could try to unblock it but for what purpose? Just swap it. If you get lots of gas from the tank but none through the burner, your blockage is elsewhere. 

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Nothing happens to a tank if you put it upside down, in fact that is how you decant from a larger tank to a smaller one,

Marc-1: You're not at all familiar with American, propane tank flow restricting safety valves are you? Do you REALLY think giving advice regarding things you don't know about is a good idea? 

 

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Opening the valve with nothing attached will definitely  not allow gas out of the tank. The valve has a mechanical interlock to prevent gas coming out without a hose or regulator attached. The interlock has a plastic bushing that melts in case of a fire and also shuts off the flow. Sometimes the plastic bushing gets crushed from use and does not allow the appliance to engage the interlock. There is also a flow restricting valve, as Frosty say's, that could be causing the problem.

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Return the tank. Any defective tank, or tank that leaks, should be taken to the outside and the problem addressed immediately.

Propane has a high expansion ratio. In liquid form, propane comes as a cryogenic liquid and we use the vapor emitted from the liquid. A little bit of liquid produces a tremendous amount of vapor. Propane gas is heavier than air. When there is a leak, it will accumulate at the lowest points such as basements, sewer drains, etc. This means that specific measures apply to propane gas installations. Air currents may carry propane vapors elsewhere within a building or other confined area.

 

One pound of liquid gas in your tank has 21,591 btu/hr fuel value. According to a major 20-pound propane tank producer, Blue Rhino, their 20-pound propane tank will only contain about 4.1 gallons of liquid propane which weighs just 17 pounds.  The empty propane tank weighs about 20 pounds so if you add the 17 pounds of gas you have a full propane tank weighing around 37 pounds.  

According to the publication NFPA58, a tank with 20 pounds of gas at 70°F has a pressure of 145 psi, at 90°F would have 180 psi, at 105°F would have 235 psi, and at 130°F would have 315 psi.

A 20# LPG tank theoretically contains 4.72 gallons but in practice may only contain 4.1 gallons since gas cylinders are not supposed to be filled more than 80% full.  

 

IForgeIron pushes safety. BOOM is not a noise you or your neighbors want to hear.

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And I'm with Frosty;  different parts of the world have different regulations and set ups; Sometimes we need to remember to preface our remarks with "Here in CountryXYZ we do/don't see this issue and you can just....."

Even in a country; rural areas may turn a blind eye to many safety issues and down here along the US/Mexican border many "creative" solutions have been implemented over the years---but the neighbors and BOOM comment still holds true...

Now we have some feedlots around here and I'm starting to think of methane digesters, shame to waste all that stink!

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Some states have implemented internal flow control valves on "barbecue" (five gallon) propane tanks. The simple end run around this problem, is to trade in your tank on a smaller or larger model. Insurance companies don't like propane barbecues, but they are "grandfathered in" to safety regulations; so they quietly encroach on that status, whenever they can.

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Sometimes we need to remember to preface our remarks with "Here in CountryXYZ we do/don't see this issue and you can just....."

Considering that this valve is not universal not even within the US, a less aggressive reply would have been better. 

 

Mod Note: This post has been edited to meet the site guidelines.

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Rubbish. There is nothing dangerous about letting some gas vent in the open. Of course if you have a valve fitted to the bottle then it can not be done. Where is the danger? 

And decanting liquid gas from one bottle to another with or without a valve can be done if you have the proper equipment without any danger whatsoever.

You are not "concerned with safety" you are interested in your own image.

you are wrong and your personal attacks on the poster does not help make it true, so act like an adult if you wish to continue to post here

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According to the publication NFPA58, propane is not a flammable liquid. It is a flammable, liquefied gas. Propane storage is severely restricted in buildings because of its rapid evolution of gas from leakage from containers, which is orders of magnitude greater than the evolution of flammable vapors from flammable liquids.

Propane is flammable when mixed with air (oxygen) and can be ignited by many sources, including open flames, smoking materials, electrical sparks, and static electricity. Propane vapors are heavier than air. For this reason, they may accumulate in low-lying areas such as basements, crawl spaces, and ditches, or along floors. However, air currents can sometimes carry propane vapors elsewhere within a building.

 

Reference to Propane safety first, AmeriGas-Propane-Safety-Brochure

Page 1 of the brochure

IF YOU SMELL GAS 1. NO FLAMES OR SPARKS! Immediately put out all smoking materials and other open flames. Do not operate lights, appliances, telephones, or cell phones. Flames or sparks from these sources can trigger an explosion or a fire.

2. LEAVE THE AREA IMMEDIATELY! Get everyone out of the building or area where you suspect gas is leaking.

3. SHUT OFF THE GAS. Turn off the main gas supply valve on your propane tank, if it is safe to do so. To close the valve, turn it to the right (clockwise).

4. REPORT THE LEAK. From a neighbor’s home or other nearby building away from the gas leak, call your propane retailer right away. If you can’t reach your propane retailer, call 911 or your local fire department.

5. DO NOT RETURN TO THE BUILDING OR AREA until your propane retailer determines that it is safe to do so. 6. GET YOUR SYSTEM CHECKED. Before you attempt to use any of your propane appliances, your propane retailer or a qualified service technician must check your entire system to ensure that it is leak-free.

 

STORAGE OF SMALL CYLINDERS

• NEVER store or place a propane cylinder indoors or in an enclosed area such as a basement, garage, shed, or tent.

• NEVER store or place a propane cylinder in an area of excessive heat (120 degrees or higher) or near a stove, fireplace, or other heat source. The heat builds up pressure inside the cylinder, which may cause the pressure relief valve to release propane. Flash fires or explosions can result from exposing cylinders to heat.

• NEVER store or place a spare cylinder under or near a barbecue grill.

• DO NOT smoke or have any ignition sources such as flames or spark-producing electrical tools in the area while handling or transporting cylinders.

 

TRANSPORTATION OF SMALL CYLINDERS

• ALWAYS transport and store a cylinder in a secure and upright position so it will not fall, shift, or roll.

• ALWAYS close the cylinder valve and, if required, seal with a plug, even if the cylinder is empty. Ask your propane retailer if a plug is required.

• NEVER keep a filled cylinder inside a hot vehicle or transport it inside a closed trunk.

• ALWAYS place the cylinder in a well-ventilated area of the vehicle.

• ALWAYS proceed directly to your destination and immediately remove the cylinder from your vehicle.

• The law places limits on the number of cylinders and the amount of propane that can be transported in closed-bodied vehicles such as passenger cars and vans. Ask your propane retailer for more information on state and local codes that apply to you.

 

Marc1 Rubbish. There is nothing dangerous about letting some gas vent in the open.

Please take that discussion up with the Propane safety first, and the AmeriGas-Propane-Safey, and the National Propane Gas Association (NPGA) organizations.

If you google *propane safety* you get About 32,400,000 results. Someone thinks IT IS important.

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I took a course in fighting propane fires back when I was a volunteer fireman, and we had some interesting demonstrations of what happens (A) when liquid propane is let out of its pressure container (short version: it boils explosively) and (B) when that vapor hits an ignition source (short version: BOOM).

There's a reason that they put mercaptan in propane: that rotten egg smell is there to let you know that you are about to have a really serious problem.

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I don't know of anywhere in the USA where the BBQ grill sized propane cylinders are not required to have the overfill and flow restriction valves.  Marc,  can you share with us your greater knowledge of where they are not required?

 Now different sized or commercial use (welding use) cylinders are not required to have them that I know of; but I think the "common" tanks have a transportation restriction on them and so that is country wide here.  

We have a propane kitchen range that had a 100# tank that I used to have to take in and get refilled that our propane dealer was adamant about not filling it unless we transported it upright so I had to figure a way to strap it vertically in my pickup bed so it wouldn't tip over on the hilly, winding road back to the house.  My wife finally got a *big* tank that they refill by truck as she couldn't manage the other tank.

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Gee, what about what happens if you let a LITTLE liquid propane get on you? That was covered and demonstrated on a chicken leg in one of my classes. NOT my kind of crispy skin on a drumstick! Heck, propane flowing into open air is quite the static electric generator, a leak can ignite itself without other source. That was covered in a movie.

Funny how actual training changes a person's attitude about what is or isn't safe and what safe even means.

True, I AM concerned about image, I prefer all of our's remain un-charred and in one general piece. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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So I think I'm enjoying myself more than I thought I would. I have played around with several designs for burner and I have found the larger mig tip I was a 1" pipe using was producing to much forced gas. I used a 3/4" tube and made air holes for it. Seems to be working well I just need to get a longer pipe and a flare which I think I'm going to have to order online cause I have no way of finding one or making one myself that is properly sized. This is a 0.30 tip in the video. Pipe is only 6" long right now. Open to suggestions if you guys would be so kind. IMG_7021.MOV

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Embedding videos means just too large a file size to load.  

Nobody can give a meaningful opinion from what little information you've provided. Who's plans are you following or are you winging it? Post a parts list and pictures, not videos pictures and we might be able to help. 

Right now all I can say is; in general a 0.030" mig tip in a 3/4" x 6" burner is unlikely to be very tunable. In the last 6 months I've been wrong enough  times you could surprise me.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I saw a video on the you tube by Dave Hammer and he demonstrated how to build one of Steve Genshiemer's burners. Looked simple enough and I had the parts for it... kind of.  The design calls for a street elbow which I don't have avalible (of course I can pick one up) so I went straight into the burner with the mig tip and have it set with a couple of bolts to hold it in place  Which these are temporary too. Like I said before I don't have a flare yet which is a big part of the tuning process with this type of burner but I was just happy I got a steady flame and wanted to share. I do think this burner tube is to short with how hot it is going to get. Hopefully these pictures work better than the video attempt. Oh and it's light out in these pictures so it is a little hard to see the flame. Let me know what you guys think. 

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