Gareth Johnston Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 first of all im new to this im new to gas forging and blacksmithing so if i get anything incorrect please forgive me . but im looking opinions on this type of forge as i was thinking of starting out with the BECMA Gas Forge Double Burner GFR.6 neo . from what i gather it seems most suitable for both blacksmithing and farrier work at a suitable price range unless you have very deep pockets . I wont be doing any farrier work all larger work including everyday shop repairs and someday hoping to be able to have any skills to make knifes etc . look forward to replies . Gareth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I went to their website. Their prices are about mid-range. From the little I could see, they looked well made. I don't like the burner design, but they seem to put out a hot flame. There looks to be a high alumina kiln shelf dividing the vertical space in the forge; that could be a very bright idea, if you have occasional need to do three dimensional work in the forge, but don't want to pay a high fuel bill the rest of the time; otherwise, not so much. It will help, but physics cannot be ignored; a bigger space costs more to heat. I just don't think they have been available long enough in our marketplace, to make a good call on whether or not to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Good; thank you, Lars. This is the kind of information potential buyers need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I checked out a couple of their forges and they look to have like pretty thin liners. The blacksmith forge looked to be split fire brick or the equivalent. The one you're looking at the GFR6 looks to have an insulting liner of some sort judging by the fibers hanging from the burner port holes. I've been seeing so many different burners recently I can't comment on these. I do like them laying flat to the forge with the intakes away from the forge exhaust. There is a pic of the burner outlets on the blacksmith forge page and they have "flame holders" or caps with holes drilled to either disperse the flame or prevent the flame from blowing off the end of the burner, "hold the flame." Hence the above therm. I didn't see a very disperse flame though and I sure wish they showed the forge near max temp. As is it looks like two hot spots and a LOT of empty volume. The GFR6 operating pics looks better but it's hard to say if it really is a hotter forge. Were I in the market I think this is the one I'd get. I'd probably think of increasing the wall thickness with refractory ceramic blanket and kiln shelf though. That's me though and I tend to redesign everything I see, goes with the puns I think. All in all it doesn't look bad. What else is available, no need to be in a hurry is there? This is a darned important piece of equipment in a blacksmith shop, patience will be rewarded. You never know what you'll see at a boot sale, I usually see excellent deals right AFTER I buy something. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, Frosty said: I checked out a couple of their forges and they look to have like pretty thin liners. The blacksmith forge looked to be split fire brick or the equivalent. The one you're looking at the GFR6 looks to have an insulting liner of some sort judging by the fibers hanging from the burner port holes. I've been seeing so many different burners recently I can't comment on these. I do like them laying flat to the forge with the intakes away from the forge exhaust. There is a pic of the burner outlets on the blacksmith forge page and they have "flame holders" or caps with holes drilled to either disperse the flame or prevent the flame from blowing off the end of the burner, "hold the flame." Hence the above therm. I didn't see a very disperse flame though and I sure wish they showed the forge near max temp. As is it looks like two hot spots and a LOT of empty volume. The GFR6 operating pics looks better but it's hard to say if it really is a hotter forge. Were I in the market I think this is the one I'd get. I'd probably think of increasing the wall thickness with refractory ceramic blanket and kiln shelf though. That's me though and I tend to redesign everything I see, goes with the puns I think. All in all it doesn't look bad. What else is available, no need to be in a hurry is there? This is a darned important piece of equipment in a blacksmith shop, patience will be rewarded. You never know what you'll see at a boot sale, I usually see excellent deals right AFTER I buy something. Frosty The Lucky. Thanks for your advice Frosty , wouldn't have much luck here finding anything second hand as the reason for looking something new , would be a different story if was coal fired as would maybe make my own forge then but have decided for a few reasons gas would be the way forward . You mention the shelf in the forge can you explain a bit more about that ? . Also if anyone else including yourself has any other recommendations on other gas forges please let me know as again im in no rush just counting up my ideas. 23 minutes ago, Frosty said: I checked out a couple of their forges and they look to have like pretty thin liners. The blacksmith forge looked to be split fire brick or the equivalent. The one you're looking at the GFR6 looks to have an insulting liner of some sort judging by the fibers hanging from the burner port holes. I've been seeing so many different burners recently I can't comment on these. I do like them laying flat to the forge with the intakes away from the forge exhaust. There is a pic of the burner outlets on the blacksmith forge page and they have "flame holders" or caps with holes drilled to either disperse the flame or prevent the flame from blowing off the end of the burner, "hold the flame." Hence the above therm. I didn't see a very disperse flame though and I sure wish they showed the forge near max temp. As is it looks like two hot spots and a LOT of empty volume. The GFR6 operating pics looks better but it's hard to say if it really is a hotter forge. Were I in the market I think this is the one I'd get. I'd probably think of increasing the wall thickness with refractory ceramic blanket and kiln shelf though. That's me though and I tend to redesign everything I see, goes with the puns I think. All in all it doesn't look bad. What else is available, no need to be in a hurry is there? This is a darned important piece of equipment in a blacksmith shop, patience will be rewarded. You never know what you'll see at a boot sale, I usually see excellent deals right AFTER I buy something. Frosty The Lucky. Also sorry forgot to ask what did you mean by insulting liners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I'm having a little trouble with terminology, what do you mean by "shelf?" I did post my observations about the forge "liner." That it? Not trying to change what you call things we just need to be talking about the same thing and I don't want to be guessing. Heck I just looked at the clock. I have to run some errands. Be back in a couple few hours. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 46 minutes ago, Lars_ said: Obviously can't talk about their gas forges since I don't have one. However, I bought one of their hoods a year ago and suddenly I had to pay an extra 70€ for delivery and the quality isn't great either. i got quoted for the GFR6 110 euro to my door but in honesty was expecting that with the distance . 1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said: I went to their website. Their prices are about mid-range. From the little I could see, they looked well made. I don't like the burner design, but they seem to put out a hot flame. There looks to be a high alumina kiln shelf dividing the vertical space in the forge; that could be a very bright idea, if you have occasional need to do three dimensional work in the forge, but don't want to pay a high fuel bill the rest of the time; otherwise, not so much. It will help, but physics cannot be ignored; a bigger space costs more to heat. I just don't think they have been available long enough in our marketplace, to make a good call on whether or not to buy. Thanks Mikey did think it was reasonable to what i had seen for prices . thanks for the advice as well all helps ! 5 minutes ago, Frosty said: I'm having a little trouble with terminology, what do you mean by "shelf?" I did post my observations about the forge "liner." That it? Not trying to change what you call things we just need to be talking about the same thing and I don't want to be guessing. Heck I just looked at the clock. I have to run some errands. Be back in a couple few hours. Frosty The Lucky. Sorry ! i meant the kiln shelf in the forge but i looked it up ive better understanding of it now . thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Ah yes, I did say kiln shelf. I was thinking about using it for a hard inner liner (flame face) rather than using a castable like plaster. Sorry about that, I got to thinking and confused the issue. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 12 hours ago, Frosty said: Ah yes, I did say kiln shelf. I was thinking about using it for a hard inner liner (flame face) rather than using a castable like plaster. Sorry about that, I got to thinking and confused the issue. Frosty The Lucky. No worries ! , its a learning curve for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 A question i never really thought much about until now which is silly considering everything . Would you all think a forge like the Becma G F R . 6 neo be capable of forging most metals saying mild steel- Damascus and so on , only reason i ask is ive been doing research and seen people with gas forges saying they've had problems with certain metals ?. Another question I have i do understand how it all works but want to hear from someone else on the subject , as far as finding the right heat / temp for each metal your using if you were using different metals how do you judge it . ( hopefully ive asked that correctly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 51 minutes ago, Gareth Johnston said: A question i never really thought much about until now which is silly considering everything . Would you all think a forge like the Becma G F R . 6 neo be capable of forging most metals saying mild steel- Damascus and so on , only reason i ask is ive been doing research and seen people with gas forges saying they've had problems with certain metals ?. Probably; but you need to understand that no commercial forge is perfect, as purchased. Nothing prevents you from upgrading, as Frosty mentioned. There are a VERY FEW commercial forges that are a slam dunk for heat; their price ranges start at double what you are looking at now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 20 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Probably; but you need to understand that no commercial forge is perfect, as purchased. Nothing prevents you from upgrading, as Frosty mentioned. There are a VERY FEW commercial forges that are a slam dunk for heat; their price ranges start at double what you are looking at now. Yes I understand , basically understand pay what you get for . well I have to start somewhere and learn somewhere so at some stage can always go bigger if need be but good to know the questions and answers now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Just as there are only a few really high in forges on the market; here are equally few really bad designs out there. The bulk of forges can be improved to any desired degree; it gets easier all the time. Basically what you purchase in most commercial forge is a fast start toward your goal; all else is negotiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Gareth: Don't over think things you can tweak that forge easily, I'd just put a thicker floor in it to reduce the volume as a start. If someone can't weld something it only really means THEY can't weld it. There used to be a long standing and commonly accepted myth that you can't weld in a naturally aspirated gas forge. Back before you could search the patent servers without being buried in worthless junk ads you could find patents for "improved" naturally aspirated forge burners from the turn of the last century. Those mostly used brown gas generated on the spot later Mr. Hobart patented calcium carbide water reactor supplied acetylene burners in forges, then oxy acet torches. Anyway, blacksmiths and especially city farriers have been welding in gas forges since just after, maybe earlier than the Civil War. A few years ago I watched an online acquaintance and a neighbor make repeated forge welds as cool as med red heat. They got into a friendly speed weld contest and because I was a spectator I got to break them in the vise with a 5lb. single jack sledge. Try to break them actually only a couple out of probably 20 failed. IIRC they were using a can of "Sure Weld" from the early 70s maybe before. Welding is a matter of following the steps and like most types of welding the three canon rules are, Clean CLEAN CLEAN! I don't think that's a bad forge, not what I'd build but I build the things from the ground up, mistakes and all. My most recent forge has a raft of mistakes but works well enough, the next one will be better. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Did you mean forge welding billets of pattern welded damascus or just forging already welded up billets as you said? The devil is in the details! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Okay Frosty; you did it twiced in one day; please post that in Forges 101. That is the best door slamming end to that old lie I ever heard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Frosty said: Gareth: Don't over think things you can tweak that forge easily, I'd just put a thicker floor in it to reduce the volume as a start. If someone can't weld something it only really means THEY can't weld it. There used to be a long standing and commonly accepted myth that you can't weld in a naturally aspirated gas forge. Back before you could search the patent servers without being buried in worthless junk ads you could find patents for "improved" naturally aspirated forge burners from the turn of the last century. Those mostly used brown gas generated on the spot later Mr. Hobart patented calcium carbide water reactor supplied acetylene burners in forges, then oxy acet torches. Anyway, blacksmiths and especially city farriers have been welding in gas forges since just after, maybe earlier than the Civil War. A few years ago I watched an online acquaintance and a neighbor make repeated forge welds as cool as med red heat. They got into a friendly speed weld contest and because I was a spectator I got to break them in the vise with a 5lb. single jack sledge. Try to break them actually only a couple out of probably 20 failed. IIRC they were using a can of "Sure Weld" from the early 70s maybe before. Welding is a matter of following the steps and like most types of welding the three canon rules are, Clean CLEAN CLEAN! I don't think that's a bad forge, not what I'd build but I build the things from the ground up, mistakes and all. My most recent forge has a raft of mistakes but works well enough, the next one will be better. Frosty The Lucky. Thanks Frosty appreciate all this advice its great to know . just making sure im heading somewhere in the right direction i can iron out the mistakes as I go along and learn. and im definitely learning now thanks again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 You're welcome Gareth, my pleasure. My #1 piece of advice is relax a little you're doing fine and we'll get that baby working to it's max. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Johnston Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: Did you mean forge welding billets of pattern welded damascus or just forging already welded up billets as you said? The devil is in the details! Just meant was it capable of working any Damascus or hard metals covering everything considering ive not worked a forge as yet hopefully still making sense here. Frosty seems to have me on the right know how now anyway but still wanting to hear everyone's advice . thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said: Okay Frosty; you did it twiced in one day; please post that in Forges 101. That is the best door slamming end to that old lie I ever heard! Twiced? I know Seattle is pretty hilly but that's carrying it a bit far don't you think? I don't think it's a lie, it's human nature to think something can't be done if that person can't. Once something becomes "common knowledge" it lives forever. There are still people arguing the Earth is flat AND hollow. I'm thinking tin foil should be either mandatory or restricted. I'll have to ask the voices. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Frosty said: Twiced? I know Seattle is pretty hilly but that's carrying it a bit far don't you think? I've waited for years to dump that into a sentence, and I ain't taken er back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Uh huh, if we ever meet up I'll holt your beer and watch. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, Frosty said: I'll have to ask the voices. Even if the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I dig spend some time running a shop in Dog Patch, back in the eighties; its still there, but real quiet these days; good thing, too. Seattle can't afford to give it an hourly visit from a patrol car anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Just now, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: Even if the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas. They're real, they even make me promise not to tell about the REALLY good ideas. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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