Restoring an austrian style anvil

[Marc1]

Hi Obert ... where are you located?

Heating up the anvil with propane in a makeshift oven may be possible if the insulation is good and if you have at least a couple of burners. two 10K bottles? I don't know about that, it depends on what size burners. But that is the easiest problem to overcome, just take 4 with you. A coal forge would be the way to go. 

Here is a link to a you tube video on the subject. Just take out the brackets at each end of the link.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5noM1NnXeE]

 

[Glenn]

4 hours ago, Obert said:

Still I would need advice regarding the stick welding electrode choice for low alloy cast steel with medium C content which is what I think my anvil is made of.

I believe I have the quenching part sorted.

You have already stated I can tell you how to convert mild steel into high carbon steel. I do it all the time. Then go with what you know will work and have done before.

As to the quenching of the anvil, you seem to have a plan already. Please let us know how it turns out.

[ThomasPowers]

I do NOT think 2 feet of water head will blast through the steam jacket of over 100 pounds of steel at over 770 C.  Anvil manufacturers used substantially higher flumes to get what they though was an appropriate hardness

As for proper alloy for fixing the foot---they generally were not hardened in traditionally made anvils so it does not matter much.  Horns used to be real wrought iron unhardened which is why so many of them dip through use.  You might search out the Robb Gunther and Karl Schuler's Anvil Repair Process for a method that has been used for hundreds if not thousands of anvils with good results.

I strongly want to suggest that you do not point the horn tip!!!!  If accidents didn't happen I wouldn't be here!   I have a lovely bick for my hardy hole that's great for forming and welding crossbow quarrel head sockets and I really like that such delicate work is higher than the anvil face.

[Obert]

After a long wait I have finally received some usefull and constructive replays and I would like to thank the contributors. So, thank you.

I come from the Balkans region that is in Europe. I have been fortunate to have been born in a place and time of peace, wealth and awe striking natural beauty. I have no idea who should I thank for this if anyone at all, but thank you. And the most famous person that came from these parts of the world was Nikola Tesla. The very man whose brilliance contributed in a big way to the comfortable ways of our present lifestyle. I have nothing but immeasurable respect and admiration for this giant of man.

I have watched the video you have linked and its first part as well. They have reasured me that this task can be accomplished with simple means and some labour of love. Thank you. Coal forge would be great and I have considered it before but the location I spoke of is publicly owned and no open fires are allowed. I plan to execute this operation as incognito as possible and without causing harm to the environment, not because its a rule but because it makes sense. And even if someone was to report the unusual activity and the police showed up to investigate I am confident that I could reason with them, because the police around my parts are very reasonable folks, that I can say from experience since I have dealt with them on many occasions or rather they have dealt with me, but allways fairly.

Thomas – well, that is somewhat disheartening, that you think the small “waterfall” I have at my disposal will be insufficient. May I ask you for your thoughts on the quenching procedure in the video that Marc has provided a link to. In my research I have been lead to believe that quenching an anvil by submerging it in stale water will not produce desired result and worse than that even, the anvil would be at risk of developing cracks. And jet, the man in the video appears to have done just that (he did wiggle it about some though) and with what seems be some good results. Would perhaps placing an anvil face down in to the stream so that only the face is submerged yield better results in your opinion. This would be another option for me. The water is about knee deep and flowing with such force that it is challenging for me to hold my footing when threading it and a smaller person would be swept off their feet. It is an alpine stream. Also, I would like to clarifiy that while I am aiming for the optimum results (always and in any matter) I am also realistic enough to be satisfied with mediocre outcome and not be disheartened even by complete failure. Thank you for your contribution.

BeaverNZ I have looked up the electrodes you have used with success and they are practically the same as the ones I have described in my first post. So thank you for your reassurance in this particular matter.

Also, what does the “draw of rail” mean?

As For the quantity of propane needed for the task at hand I have my doubts as well, but acquiring expensive (to me) new equipment that I will likely have use for only this one time is unfortunately not an option at the moment. Same goes for a better insulating material.

But, there shall be no despair… I have since decided to turn to science for help. And therefor I have dabbled a bit in the physics of the matter at hand. And even though I realize the results are nowhere near conclusive nor necessarily correct, as I am no physicist and there are surely many contributing factors that I havent even thought of. But so far so good. I am actually very skeptic, since it seems to be to good to be true. Not only will 20 kg of propane suffice, It should be more than enough. So this is what I came up with so far. Obviously I am no Tesla but here goes.

The specific heat of carbon steel is around 480J/kgK this means it takes 480 J of energy to heat 1kg of steel by 1 degree (K or C are interchangeable). So, my lump of steel weighs roughly 50kg and I want to heat it up to around 800C. This would then take 50 * 800 = 40000 times more energy than heating 1kg by 1 degree. Disregarding the fact that the starting temp. will be somewhat more then 0C of course. And this would then make 40000 * 500J (I rounded the specific heat up) = 20 000 000 J or 20 MJ of energy. Now, a kg of propane contains a calorific value of between 45 and 50 MJ. This would then mean that roughly 0.5kg of propane should do the trick. Whoah! This cant be right...Now surely there are a lot more variables to consider. This result might be close for ideal conditions with no losses and all the energy of the gas combustion transferred effectively. So for the actual situation I will have to consider at least the capacity of the gas torch and the tanks valves or how much energy can it deliver and in what time frame, also the losses, mostly by convection.

The later will be mitigated to a degree by enclosing the whole anvil, from all sides bar the opening for the torch tip, with firebricks and possibly perlite to close all the gaps. It will essentially be like a small gas forge where the ceilling is the anvils face. And also I am under the impression that the entire mass of the anvil needs not be heated to the critical temp. in order to harden the face. If I am not mistaken, then this should work in my favor also.

As for the torch, yeah, have not got a clue. I made my torch (I am not sure of the correct term, is it a torch, a burner a rosebud or are they interchangeable) from bits and pieces years ago and it has served me well for my needs so far. Also it makes a nice whooshing sound, I just mention it, because it is – well, nice. Its a venturi type system. But I do not know the energy output of my own torch, it is rather embarrassing. So, as it seems I shall have to dabble in the physics matters some more.

Now, If any of you out there are physicists, please, do spare me the dabbling, as I am sure this would be a walk in the park for you while on the other hand I am navigating the amazon rain forest here.

I have taken a few photos of my torch and its flame at the regular burning rate and full throttle.

At full throttle the cone of blue flame, which is the hottest, to my understanding, at around 1500 C, is roughly 200mm long and 30mm in diameter at the widest section. I will try and modify the torch so that the blue cone would reach around 300mm this would then span the entire length of my anvil face. Or perhaps build another one and utilize the pair, have not decided jet. Comments and thoughts on the torch issue are most welcome.

Glenn – as to your last post. Even though it is very short, it is also very enigmatic. I havent been able to decipher it jet. So far it makes no sense to me. The method for carburizing mild steel that I have described works very well for small objects, such as screwdrivers and chisels or their tips to be exact (as I also stated). I do not understand how this translates to welding up a missing tip of the horn. Even if I could perform this method on an anvil sized object successfully, I would not in this case, as I do not want the horn to be high carbon nor I want it to be hardened, especially not to a high degree. Nor is it necessary in my case since the steel in question already contains a high enough C content for its purpose. So, I do not understand your reasoning in this matter.

As to the quenching of the anvil… well, as it turns out, the plot thickens… but that is not a problem, it is a challenge to be overcome and an opportunity for gaining new knowledge and experiences, which for me is the best kind of fun there is since it equates to life itself, in my reality at least. Have fun guys. Cheers!

 

Mode Note: The post has been edited in order to meet the site guidelines. 

[BeaverNZ]

Hi there obert

I just re read my post and there was a typo where i said draw off rale I ment to say draw off rate meaning the amount of gas that can drawn off from the gas bottle at  a constant rate without loosing pressure, You can put the bottles in a big tube of warm water to stop them freezing but I have seen on good old youtube people making a temporary coke or coal forge which would probably be the most effective way of making enough heat for what you want and probably the cheapest too. PS that bottom flame looks like it has no where enough air, have a look at the burners section there is heaps of good stuff PSS I think the water fall if it is as you describe would be worth a go Cheers Beaver