Johnnyreb338 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 This 1 went really bad, was trying to make a 7 layer laminated blade. Ended up with a knife shaped banana peel. The blade split on both sides between the 1095and 15n20. I guess they can't all be winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.IVO Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Pitty, did it split after or before quenching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 During quenching. I heard it cracking in the tank. Later this morning I cut some 2x2 test pieces of the same materials and tried welding them again, same problem, I quenched it and it delaminated as soon as it cooled. Not sure what's happening. I done another blade after the first 1 failed but I left the 15n20 out and it worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 What were you quenching in? At what temperature? A simple piled blade doesn't get the refinement of the weld like one that gets a lot of subsequent forging on it; so "iffy" welds can fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 what makes you think you have 1095 and 15N20 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Good afternoon Thomas. The quenant was canola oil and the temp was a good Brite orange (1600 1700) degrees. The core was 1095 1/8 thick, 2 each 5160 1/16 thick ,2 each 15n20 1/16 thick, and capped with 1/16 cold rolled flat bar on each side. Good afternoon Steve. It was ordered as so, and still had the sticker on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarkNebulah Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I'm not an expert here but I've heard that 5160 is tricky to forge weld with due to the chromium content. I would try leaving it out next time, because I know 1090 and 15n20 are common in Damascus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Welding 15N20 with 5160 is probably the problem; are you using an aggressive flux to help with the chromium and nickel oxides? Also "2 each": is that one on either side; or two thin pieces per side meaning you are welding 5160 to 5160? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 never mentioned the 5160 the first time around,make it hard to help when you leave out details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Leaving out critical information is more normal than not when folks ask questions here; hence my numerous posts about details! That problem is that the asker *knows* all the details and seems to forget we don't...(hmmm when was the last time I twitted someone about wearing a tin foil hat impeding our ability to read their mind...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Thomas 1 each per side. Standard Walmart borax for Flux. The 5160 bonded to the cold roll good, but the 15n20 did not bond to the 5160 or the 1095. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 I have limited experience at doing laminated steel so that being said I also was useing very thin material which adds it's own challenges, it was probably something I did wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I've had trouble welding nickel/chromium steels to themselves. Enough that I often will put a piece of plain steel between them---I look for *old* hand saws that are trashed at the scrapyard---from before they started adding in the fancy alloys; or I use pallet strapping. They can be welded using very proper technique; I tend to just "cheat" and get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Laundry borax isn't as aggressive as you'd like for welding chromium or nickle steels. If you have a welding supply store locally check the cans of welding/brazing flux. It's typically anhydrous borax, boric acid and sometimes something proprietary you have to look on the MSDS to get a hint of. Or, better still if you can order sal amoniac but use good, VERY good ventilation it can be darned toxic to breath. Well, yeah it's something you did wrong but you can fix that and we'll help. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Thanks for the response I'll run by the welding store and pick up some good Flux before I try this again. If I try it again. The money going out vs the money coming in is a little to one sided. Plus I don't have a belt sander so all work has to be done by hand. Lately I've been questioning whether to keep doing it or not. I think drag racing was just as cheap. Hopefully it will stop raining here 1 day so I can go fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I generally mix my own as it's cheaper. Roach pruf is 98% boric acid and is pretty cheap at the store. Getting into the high alloy steels sometimes requires fluorspar WHICH IS VERY TOXIC---DON'T BREATHE THE FUMES WHEN USING IT TO WELD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Mixing your own is a LOT cheaper than buying "REAL FORGE" welding flux from blacksmith suppliers. Plain old dip your brazing, welding, etc. rod in the can welding flux is significantly cheaper than "real" welding flux and it's basically the same stuff. I bought a 1lb. can of Peterson's #2 for $26 and change, on the shelf in Wasilla Ak. Their high temp Yellow I think has powdered iron in it if you prefer. Flourspar is what I couldn't remember and is a very aggressive flux it's the "flourine" content that is effective for chrome, nickle, etc. alloys. Read up on getting flourine in you though, it's scary stuff. Transdermal toxins scare me. Thanks for remembering the flux Thomas, I knew I could count on somebody's memory. Glad to see you posting again, all rested up? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Only had 1300 email messages in my work queue this morning! Heading to the Dr right now to get my work release signed off and will be crossing the border tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 So what did you do to fill the afternoon? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 Little late but here's a picture of the completed san mai style blade from above along with another knife I hammered from some old leaf springs, kinda has a pirate appeal to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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