Planejeff Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Hello everyone! I am new to blacksmith work! I would like some information about cutting blades for tractor mowers (bush hogs). I want to know the best way to heat treat the blades for reuse? Thanks for any assist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 You probably in the future will want to post in the knife making section of this forum. Well once you heat carbon steel it anneals it making the harden atoms in the steel loosen up a bit from what I understand. You can soften a high carbon steel like a file this way. but when you heat and then quench a steel it slams those molecules tightly together. Sometimes they get slammed too hard together as in a water quench,and it creates stress fractures in the steel. Why I always use oil. Lately I've been making rail road spike knives and I heat them to where the blades are non magnetic then quench in oil and then I do a file test to see if they harden or if they needed to heat treated again. This is a crude example. But to better understand molecules. Let's take water for example. When it's at room temperature the molecules are still bonded together but their very relaxed and loosey goosey. Yet when water is frozen into ice those molecules are slammed together and very rigid. and in steam those molecules are no longer bonded together like they were in the two former states but are rather set free and going crazy.. Steel is like this as well. How I see anyways. This post is wrong on so many levels. Steel molecules do not get closer together when quenching, if you read some of the papers or the pinned posts here about it you would know, not only how things harden but WHY rr spikes can not get very hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 different makers will use different steels for the blades and each type will behave differently, check the specs with the maker railroad spikes are normally not much better than mild steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I don't know why folks on here feel the need to be captain obvious and put down the carbon content in Rail road spikes knives Why do I make them? because I ran into a deal and picked up a bunch of them. What else am I suppose to do with them. Is it the best steel to make knives? Of course not. But as soon as somebody says they are making rail road spike knives or a rail road track anvil somebody always has to put it down and start talking about why it's inferior. Why do you people do this? All your criticism isn't gonna stop other people from doing these sort of things. You do understand this thread was never about rr nails ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 rail track at least here is generally quite good and unlike a knife it does not need to hold an edge, it is quite a bit of work to make a knife and much better steel is cheap ( like old files, springs or sway bars ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 20 hours ago, Fred Beagle said: I don't know why folks on here feel the need to be captain obvious and put down the carbon content in Rail road spikes knives Perhaps because most people have enough sense to know its going to use the same amount of time to make a bad knife from a $1 RR Spike into a blade as it is to make a $3 section of good steel into a good blade. Those of us with real experience are attempting to warn those just starting as any one with real experience should understand, If this poster had read anything here before posting he would have posted in the knife section for example., and I will relocate his post there for him. There is no compression to making steel harden its crystalline structure and simple physics; there is not enough carbon in a RR Nail to harden enough to make a good blade. As I said before one can get a paper cut but I dont want to use paper to make a blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 There are people that would disagree with your assessment. And ebay is full of custom makers selling rail road spike knives and some quite elaborate and selling between 60 dollars to over a 100 dollars apiece and they put a ton of time into them making them look that great.. A rail road spike can be tempered to hold an edge unlike mild steel. But I agree a much better steel would be a leaf or coil spring. Maybe it's just a spirit of offense that comes over me that I feel the need to start a fight with every xxxxxxxx that wants to point out the obvious. In this case I apologize, It's just I get frustrated and tired of that crap happening. Mod Note: Copyrighted photo deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Fred Beagle said: Why do you people do this? All your criticism isn't gonna stop other people from doing these sort of things. Perhaps for the same reason why you do THAT (not text shouting). You are free to extol the virtues of the ubiquitous Rail Nail, and I an free to present my position on the utility of a given material, as well. In a literal sense, voicing an an opposing position (as opposed to an opposing opinion) IS (not text shouting) criticism, but what harm is there in that? You Mr Beagle, Mr Sells, and others, are speaking to thousands of others around the globe, and while we always TRY to be polite. Mr Beagle, I advise you of the forum rules on language and name-calling. Robert Taylor Oh, and very nice work, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 @Fred Beagle, is that knife your work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Anachronist58 said: You Mr Beagle, Mr Sells, and others, are speaking to thousands of others around the globe, and while we always TRY to be polite. Mr Beagle, I advise you of the forum rules on language and name-calling. where did I do any name calling Robert? your post reads as if I am in violation of IFI rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Steve Sells said: where did I do any name calling Robert? your post reads as if I am in violation of IFI rules. I think that "you, sir" was addressed to Fred Beagle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Hey I apologize and I'm through arguing the matter. It's not just rail road spikes it's people's smug attitude and it happens everyday all over the world and my little rant ain't gonna make it stop lol. No that's not my work but I'm leaning in that direction except not with rail road spikes. My point in posting that picture is that there are people who do think that rail road spikes are worth putting that sort of time into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Wow I just got penalized for telling the truth and not being political correct and family friendly. Though I didn't start the fight oh well. kind of funny. Mod34 your blade did not make the cut,Please turn in your weapon and leave the forge. Knock it off, you are on very thin ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, Steve Sells said: where did I do any name calling Robert? your post reads as if I am in violation of IFI rules. My apologies I offer Steve, post edited. Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, Fred Beagle said: I just got penalized for telling the truth and not being political correct IForgeIron is a G rated, Family forum. A notification was sent to you, as the words you used were Xed out. Did you get permission from Mr. Jones, or the photographer, to use their copyrighted material? If so please provide that permission or the photo will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planejeff Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 I am not making a knife with the blades. I want to sharpen the blades and put a harden edge on the blades. It for a 14 ft mower. I am hoping to get the nicks out of the blade and get a nice cutting edge on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Beagle Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I don't really give a xxxx what you do I don't like the smug xxxxxxxx folks around here anyways This persona posts are a great example of why we should not post when HIgh, it will come back and bite us sooner or later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Fred Beagle said: I don't really give a xxxx what you do I don't like the smug xxxxxxxx folks around here anyways Whoa, brother, keep a leash on it. you won't get to far around here with that attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Planejeff said: I am not making a knife with the blades. I want to sharpen the blades and put a harden edge on the blades. It for a 14 ft mower. I am hoping to get the nicks out of the blade and get a nice cutting edge on it. Hi Jeff, don't mind the squabble over knives. As for your mower blades, best you can do is sharpen them carefully cooling them in a tin of water so they keep their current hardness. You don't want a hardened edge on a mower blade or it will shatter when you hit a stone. Mower blades are disposable, and some are not even meant to be sharpened. I have a small ride on mower with a single 54" deck and I used to sharpen the blades until I realised it was a waste of time. I had 4 blades and removed 2 of them and now it cuts better and when the blades are worn out I replace them. You say your mower is a 14 ft mower. What brand and model is it? How do you measure a mower in foots? Is it the deck or the whole thing? Just curious, anyway, my take is leave them alone, sharpen them if you want, keep them cool and forget heat treatment. Nicks in the blade will make no difference in performance unless you are cutting a green on a golf course. Mower blade cut mostly by impact PS I remember making a mower blade from spring steel. It was so long ago that I don't remember the benefits, but in my view today, I wouldn't spend any time making a mower blade. Better make a gate or a bottle opener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planejeff Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Marc1 it is a John Deere 1408. It is measured the entire width of the mower. It is a total 14 ft and 1 inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Wow that is some mower! What do you cut with it, nice lawn or just scrub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 if you contact the maker they can give you the specs of the blades, ( if they want to ) then you can get better advice here on how to fix them but as something like that could be a huge liability issue if something went wrong I can understand john deere not wanting to help much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I see, just looked it up, it's a pull behind slasher. Yes, those blades sure take a beating. Are the blades expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 John Deere push lawnmower blades are typically 5160 or the like. Don't know what they use on the 1408. There's a good thread somewhere around here about break testing for mystery steel. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Check your blood sugar, have a cookie or something Fred you're losing it. What is smug about warning folk who don't know any better that RR spikes do NOT make useful knives? Honesty is smug in your book? Is valuing function over form smug or do you think the prettiest cars should win the races? Steve: Robert was backing you, your name came up in the post as one of the folk who work so hard to keep the forum clean enough my grandchildren can look at and read anything. He just wasn't as smooth in the delivery as he wanted to be. Everybody has crabby days, even me. Hopefully Fred will get himself in order and stay a member. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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