Jump to content
I Forge Iron

5160 pros and cons


Recommended Posts

I see what you guys mean he said it was just something he had heard he may have been talking about low carbon or iron but he never really clarified it either way so I just have the memory from about 12 years ago him saying that to me as we were working on a truck. I'm still doing research though to try to figure out everything I can before just diving headfirst into muddy water. I'm sure my grandpa was just saying a rumor he'd heard about it. And bloomery is a new term for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a friend years ago who insisted that blacksmiths get their metal to forging temperatures by bending it back and forth until it heats up enough to glow red. People do get some funny ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another urban myth as doing so would almost certainly leave the blade warped past using.  If you research it, it turns out that people always claimed their *enemies* did so! (It's possible to track it in a circle with one group claiming that they didn't do it but group number 2 did and group number 2 claiming that they didn't do it but group number 3 did and so on till group N claims that they didn't do it but group 1 did!)

Now fresh blood works like a weak brine in a quench.  Seawater would be better. Of course Theophilus in 1120 wrote in Divers Arts that you could quench in the urine of a small red headed boy or a goat fed ferns for 3 days. (at one time I almost qualified for the first but now am closer to the second!)  I've quenched in a stale urine exhaust bath from an indigo dying project.  It had such an amusing smell when the hot steel hit it...

For more oddball quenchants from the Renaissance: Sources for the History of the Science of Steel, 1532 - 1786; C.S.Smith; has a list in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/1/2017 at 3:53 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Ahh you do know you should be able to ILL books at your local public library by asking at the front desk.  I live in a small town in rural NM and I can get books from any of 90+ other libraries including several universities

Where could I find these books on line at? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try bamsite.org   &

books. I believe they have them on the site.

Better yet try this,

http://www.bamsite.org/library/bamlibrary.pdf

This is better,

http://www.bamsite.org/books/books.html

Or,

Google "iforgeiron cosira" and you should get the site url for cosira

SLAG.

Forget hot urine, such as peeing on a campfire to "put it out".

The odor is vile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2017 at 7:18 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Another urban myth as doing so would almost certainly leave the blade warped past using.  If you research it, it turns out that people always claimed their *enemies* did so! (It's possible to track it in a circle with one group claiming that they didn't do it but group number 2 did

Speaking of different quench mediums I tried searching this and the oil in this heater thing I have is silicone oil I've only found 2 threads on here that mention it I'm wondering if any of you guys have any experience in using it I mean it's in a space heater so in theory it should disperse heat well and be a decent medium but I'm worried about having a chemical explosion by introducing a hot blade to it and I'm going to be in a 6x7 shed I'm building for this forge but it's gonna have big windows and a big door so it'll have plenty of ventilation but basically I don't want to get blown up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know you can buy heat treat oils of different chill speeds and heat transfer oil works well too and is cheaper. I just hit the local supermarket deli for a 5gl. jug of fryer oil. They change it often and it's all canola. It helps a lot to be a likable bull shooter and tel them why you need it. Bring a clean 5gl. jerry can with a tag and stop by the day they change oil. You donn't want to make it hard or inconvenient for the nice folk.

I wanted the donut oil but I got the stuff that makes the shop smell like: chicken, egg rolls, fish, mojo potatoes, etc. Oh well.

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I plan on going and talking to the fast food restaurants about getting some of their oil when they change it out I know some of the ppl that work at them and it's free lol I could just have them filter it first or I'll build a filter to strain the oil through. I'm on a bit of a budget that's why I was asking I have about 5 of these space heaters and they all messed up and won't work anymore so I was considering repurposing  the oil for this since it's just sitting there useless at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Canola oil is pretty cheap, and for little things like knives a gallon is sufficient. Begging for used oil and dinkering around filtering it falls way above my worth it meter for what it costs to just buy some fresh stuff at the grocery store with no worries of contamination. A $4 empty paint can from the hardware store makes a great "quench tank" at this size with a nice lid. I guess theoretically the canola oil could eventually go rancid, but you're going to get a long while out of it. I eventually want to get some true heat treat oil just so I don't have to worry about pre heating, but my paint can of canola oil has been rolling issue free for a good bit for me. To pre heat I just get a railroad spike good and hot and swirl it in the oil before the quench.  I'm waiting on getting the "real stuff" until I settle on some favorite steels so I can buy the oil with the right target speed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back to the oil in electrically heated "oil" heaters:  I don't know anything about it and so worry about possible additions to it; like they used to do for transformer oil where PCBs were added to stabilize them. And, unfortunately, if the heaters were manufactured in China I'd worry more as they have a rather lengthy list of not following "Best Practices" in manufacturing and environmental safety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with you Thomas especially where China made is concerned. They're just not so concerned with living long healthy lives as we are. Heat treat or heat transfer oils are designed for the job. Heat transfer oils like you find in tar post, etc. is a pretty common commodity. I'd lose the fryer oil if I did much heat treating.

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, more precisely, their factory owners aren't held to the same kind of health-and-safety regulations as ours.

That said, I entirely agree with Frosty and ThomasPowers that there are too many unknowns in your heater oil to risk using it as a quenchant. Canola oil is cheap, fryer oil is free, and manufactured quenching oils are easily obtained. Don't bother.

(And that's the King of Unnecessary Salvage talking, so you know you'd better listen up.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well punishments in China for giving the country a bad name in the world wide press tend to be draconian; but getting away with things seems to be an accepted modus operandi.

I've worked with an unnamed country about 20 years ago where we had moved our cable manufacturing there and had such issues we specified 100% test; every cable had to have a full test run on it before shipping.  We still send 2 complete sets of cables to each location as even with 100% test we were getting around 50% drop out. (and these went to million+ dollar systems involved in a 3-7 Billion dollar *net* revenue stream systems! I did the upgrade for our lab machine and realized what problems they were having in the field when I called an error message in and the field support guy could tell me off the top of his head exactly where the problem was in the 640 backplane wiring changes...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2017 at 9:31 AM, JHCC said:

Another aspect of the repeated folding and forge welding of Japanese steel was that it gave it a more consistent carbon content throughout, rather than with that content varying considerably in different parts of the original bloom. 

I agree. Aside from this, the Japanese sword blades are forged with different profiles and varying amounts of grind. They also use a mixture of clay and water in between heating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay cool I am going to start on building everything tomorrow afternoon so I'll upload pics as soon as I get everything finished I was told rebar makes good material for tongs and if nothing else I can find a long pair of channel locks or vice grips until I can get tongs built to do small projects but yeah first thing is getting my stuff built lol. Again guys thanks so much for the knowledge I'm going to continue combing the site to learn more I'm looking into lining the outside of my forge with a mud mortared stone for a decorative look lol since I'm making it cheap but I think I can make it work just fine. Hopefully the weather allows me to get this done fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay thanks ThomasPowers I'll probably go with mild steel for my first set I build until I get more knowledgeable then probably go to a 5160 later. I will definitely read the threads on rebar I know I was looking at rebar and rasp files as a potential source of metal for future projects so I'll definitely research it more thoroughly on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the biggest problems with using rebar for smithing projects is the texture: you're going to be putting in a lot of extra work to smooth out all those bumps and ridges.  You can save yourself a lot of unnecessary effort by starting with stock of the right size and texture. Many steel suppliers will sell you their extra cut-off pieces (called "drops") at a discount.

 Of course, if you incorporate that texture into your design, it can be kind of cool. The college where I work just had a major building project, and the construction company let me salvage the  extra bits of steel. I  forged one piece of rebar into a coiled-up rattlesnake as a thank-you to the company, and made another into a bottle opener as a farewell gift to our outgoing president. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...