New Apprentice Blacksmiths

[ryancrowe92]

Me:(Ryan); and my brother:(Bryan); have decided to go into blacksmithing because of our love of fire and wish to learn more but were on a fixed budget of $75 a week and have a crappy shop we have to fix and we have bought most of the equipment to get started like our Mig welder, vise, torch but still have a few things that I will post in another thread. we live in Oconee county in south Carolina we don't have much but we can start by getting more equipment like the next two thing on our list is a Forge and an anvil. we are 16 and still go to high school as we are rising juniors, but we will be getting more stuff soon and I'm not that good at introductions so I will wrap this up so anyway we hope to learn from this an my brother a little more than be because he has been sheltered all of his life, so I know more about the tools but he can pull his own weight, so I'm not that worried about him, so anyway that's it for this intro  

[ThomasPowers]

I'm 60 and I don't get $75 a week to spend on my vices (and vises)!  You have an embarrassment of riches! First try to save as much of it as possible to fund large purchases. (One of the cardinal rules on trying to get stuff cheap is having the money to hand when a deal appears!)

 Second look up the TPAAAT for a good method of finding stuff on the cheap. I bought my first powerhammer, a 25# little giant, for US$75 and while that was a while ago it was still way under "current prices".

Do you have a library card?  Go ask the main desk how to ILL "$50 Knife Shop", "The Complete Modern Blacksmith", "Backyard Blacksmith", "Introduction to Knifemaking"; etc. (You may need Parental approval to order knifemaking books...)

Find the local Blacksmithing group, (you might check the ABANA Affiliate listings) and attend meetings   *knowledge* is far more important than tools, (and just knowing what tools are mandatory vs helpful vs not really needed is a massive savings.)

If you search here you will find several listings on how I once made a complete beginner's set up: Forge, blower, anvil and basic tools for under US$25---and I used that forge to weld damascus billets for several years!

[John in Oly, WA]

I second what Thomas said. Get the books - read. Read IFI. And get out and tell EVERYONE you can what you're doing and what you're looking for - anvil, hammers, etc. The more people you tell, the luckier you'll be at finding the tools and materials you need - some or all of it for free!

[ThomasPowers]

And everyone means EVERYONE; last anvil I found was owned by a lady in my church in her 90's; not who you might guess would have one!

[ryancrowe92]

57 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

I'm 60 and I don't get $75 a week to spend on my vices (and vises)!  You have an embarrassment of riches! First try to save as much of it as possible to fund large purchases. (One of the cardinal rules on trying to get stuff cheap is having the money to hand when a deal appears!)

 Second look up the TPAAAT for a good method of finding stuff on the cheap. I bought my first powerhammer, a 25# little giant, for US$75 and while that was a while ago it was still way under "current prices".

Do you have a library card?  Go ask the main desk how to ILL "$50 Knife Shop", "The Complete Modern Blacksmith", "Backyard Blacksmith", "Introduction to Knifemaking"; etc. (You may need Parental approval to order knifemaking books...)

Find the local Blacksmithing group, (you might check the ABANA Affiliate listings) and attend meetings   *knowledge* is far more important than tools, (and just knowing what tools are mandatory vs helpful vs not really needed is a massive savings.)

If you search here you will find several listings on how I once made a complete beginner's set up: Forge, blower, anvil and basic tools for under US$25---and I used that forge to weld damascus billets for several years!

that's how i got my welder, and i looked up the tpaat and all i fount was a forum post for Thomas powers applied anvil acquisition technique, and i live in Salem, SC and we have a library at the town hall but i cant get one till im 18.and we don't have a local blacksmithing group we are lucky to have a dollar general store. and a harbor freight in Seneca

[John in Oly, WA]

That's exactly it - the Thomas Powers' Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique. Did you read about it? Sometimes even works for forges, hammers, vises and other sundry blacksmithing effects.

Can't get what til you're 18? A library? A town hall? A library card? If it's the card, maybe have one of your parents get one.

[ThomasPowers]

That does seem odd for a library card; all my kids have had one since they were in grade school all the places we have lived.

Now I could understand not allowing you the knifemaking books under 18 but the Complete Modern Blacksmith and Backyard blacksmith shouldn't cause a problem *AND* be much more what you need at this stage as you need to learn how to forge before you worry about forging blades---just as one needs to learn how to drive a car before one worries about running races in one.

Again, if the library is fussy having a parent get the book is suggested, (or buying it!)

[SLAG]

Senior Ryancrowe92,

Look up the COSIRA books, and also the A.B.A.N.A. forging series. All the basics are there and available on line.

The first series can be located on bamsite.com book section. And the succeeding reference is on that organization's site.

Also, search using any search engine you like but put in iforgeiron and the term you are searching for.

This site has an enormous amount of information.

Welcome to the gang,

SLAG.

[ryancrowe92]

14 hours ago, John in Oly, WA said:

That's exactly it - the Thomas Powers' Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique. Did you read about it? Sometimes even works for forges, hammers, vises and other sundry blacksmithing effects.

Can't get what til you're 18? A library? A town hall? A library card? If it's the card, maybe have one of your parents get one.

i fount a forum page by the moderator but can you send me a link

[ryancrowe92]

14 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

That does seem odd for a library card; all my kids have had one since they were in grade school all the places we have lived.

Now I could understand not allowing you the knifemaking books under 18 but the Complete Modern Blacksmith and Backyard blacksmith shouldn't cause a problem *AND* be much more what you need at this stage as you need to learn how to forge before you worry about forging blades---just as one needs to learn how to drive a car before one worries about running races in one.

Again, if the library is fussy having a parent get the book is suggested, (or buying it!)

oh its not that im not allowed im allowed to im allowed to do anything except stuff that would get me in trouble, i mostly watch YouTube for stuff like this. and i have been driving since i was a kid from atv's to my 85 Chevy which was a hand me down from my other grandpa

[RobbieG]

12 minutes ago, ryancrowe92 said:

 i mostly watch YouTube for stuff like this

The majority of videos on Youtube are either wrong, dangerous or both.

 

If you must use Youtube check out videos from Alec steele, Brian Brazeal, Torbjorn Ahmann, Dirtysmith and a few others I can't think of at the minute. The only issue with watching these videos is the potential for unrealistic expectations of your own abilities - those guys are all professionals with many years of practice behind them and are also very talented! Start simple and read the books recommended above.

[ryancrowe92]

that's why i watch a wide variety of videos and use some common sense because i have seen some of the most stupidest things out there on the internet and you just have to be cautious.and i will check those videos out so thanks for the videos and can some one point me in the way of like an anvil, or the TPAAT

[Glenn]

A google search for "TPAAAT and IForgeIron" together has 49,600 RESULTS. Thomas Powers Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique is is a sticky and located in the anvil section. The post has 118 replies across 5 pages.

We have had blacksmiths as young as 6 years old on the site. This was not a kid with a backyard and a fire but a young man who was a working blacksmith making products. 

The internet is a wonderful place full of more information that you can ever imagine. Search engines are your friend but only look for what you ask, and only in the way you ask the question. YOU will have to learn how to search out the information you need. The information available is free, as in no cost, zip, nada, Once you get your googlefoo started, there are even more information opportunities that pop up.

Look for ANY and ALL information in your area of interest. Many folks get caught in the *new* information trap, that is to say what was written in this century. Blacksmithing has been around for a long time, several centuries, so also look for things written in the last century, and the century before that. There are many hours of research that can be done. 

The youtube authors list above are good, but youtube is full of bad information that can get you hurt. The suggestions for Alec steele, Brian Brazeal, Torbjorn Ahmann, and jlpservises are good solid information, and all are members if IForgeIron.

 

The following can be of use to you in your quest for information.

What do you need to get started in Blacksmithing? The opening video should be watched.

How to deal with a curmudgeon

Advice to newbies from a newbie 

[ryancrowe92]

thanks glen

[John in Oly, WA]

You are off to a good start. You found iforgeiron.com - best site on the internet.

[ryancrowe92]

i went through 2 other forms and the seem like ghost towns

[ThomasPowers]

I'm going to quibble with Glenn: Blacksmithing has been around for several MILLENNIA!

One of the reasons we suggest books over the internet is that there is a cost to getting a book published and so there is a filter to help keep a lot of the trash out.  Not all by any means; but a much better proportion is good info compared to the Internet where *ANYONE* with a computer can post information.

Also the damage to handheld phones, tablets, etc around an active forge can be expensive---recently I warned a student 3 times, (my standard) and then allowed him to learn the hard way that anvil horns and displays do not impact well. (and replacing the display costs several times what my anvil cost---though nowadays that's inverting!)

[ryancrowe92]

i have been looking at the man at arms YouTube channel that my brother showed my and these guys know how to turn raw iron into swords and stuff they are pretty good at it.im thinking about getting a belt grinder next but i still need an anvil so i kind of don't want the cheap harbor freight cast iron one so i may find an I beam at the junk yard or an old car that i can salvage stuff from.but i got a lot on my list and most of it is safety equipment.

[Glenn]

I did not want to over load him with several MILLENNIA of information, a few centuries should keep him busy for a while. (grin) 

Read the anvil section of the site for anvil ideas. A hedge hammer hear will work, a fork lift tine, or any SOLID object with mass. One guy used a block of granite, as in rock, for an anvil.

An aircraft hanger full of tools will not make you a better blacksmith. Hammer time will make you a better blacksmith.

[ryancrowe92]

i got to go to the doctor today and i may think about dropping by the junkyard for a brake drum or rotor for that brake drum forge cause it looks so easy to make. and i have been looking at a home made power hammer, but like i said i am still getting started and with as much as i already know and what i want to learn but Friday is the last day of school for me so yay the summer is here more welding and going to harbor freight to buy tools for me.

guys i have a quick question can i just use my torch for heating metal instead of furnace

[Glenn]

 With a junk yard and a welder and you should be able to make most anything you need. 

While at the junk yard look for heavy metal objects that can be used as an anvil.

While at the junk yard, DO NOT look for things by name, look for things that can be used. Things like old hydraulic cylinders, any heavy plate steel, anything solid with mass.

[ryancrowe92]

1 minute ago, Glenn said:

 With a junk yard and a welder and you should be able to make most anything you need. 

While at the junk yard look for heavy metal objects that can be used as an anvil.

While at the junk yard, DO NOT look for things by name, look for things that can be used. Things like old hydraulic cylinders, any heavy plate steel, anything solid with mass.

i have an old broken one (hydraulic,cylinder), and i will get some stuff at the junkyard if it's free but i may have to carry some money with me and i dont know how much i have right now but Fridays pay day and that should get me somewhere. and what can i use a hydraulic cylinder for its off of an old log splitter

[Kevin Olson]

You take the shaft out of the cylinder and cut and square the end then stand it up right and use it as an anvil. That way you have the maximum mass under the hammer blows. And yes, it will look like a small target but will work. You'll improve your hammer accuracy quickly too.:-)

[ThomasPowers]

Hydraulic cylinder: working---forging press, not working---sell for scrap.

The important thing about an anvil is the amount of solid metal directly under the hammer so take an I beam on it's side and cut off everything on the top that does not have steel all the way to the other side.  How good an anvil does it look then? Look at all the useless metal YOU payed for.

Now what we suggest is solid chunks of steel: chunks of 6" shafting, broken RR couplers, and my favorite fork lift tines see this website for a nice write up. (and I am the Thomas mentioned in it.)

http://www.marco-borromei.com/fork.html

 

[ryancrowe92]

OK Friday's pay day and since its 22:38 at night here im just gonna say tomorrow is when i get it but take a look at this cheap belt grinder that i am going to buy and some other stuff that is free on the sale they are having at harbor freight this weekend for memorial day. like a free tape measure and a tarp plus a 25% off coupon which is rare and i don't  know if it will work and i just looked at it and i can only use it Monday but i can still use the 20% off one,

right now I am going to start making knives and i will make a thread at the appropriate form topic/ subtopic and show my work to the world or create a new YouTube account and start filming, now can any knife maker give me some advice on what grit belt i need cause it comes with an 80 grit belt. and the anvil problem is kind of fixed for right now since i have one on my vise. but my next investment will be on a drill press or some more gas for the torch cause ill need that before i start