General help on a brick forge/ needing info

[Frosty]

John in Oly: It goes like this, "Doing the same thing, expecting a different result is a definition of insanity." He said or paraphrased the same statement a LOT, it was his way to bump folks out of a rut. Einstein's remembered for saying it mostly because he said it so often to his interns and colleagues. 

I don't think OSB is a bad guy, he's a kid. A typical know it all kid. Been there done that drove adults crazy till I grew up a little. Haven't we all?

I haven't filtered him, if he asks a different question I don't have to work too hard to figure out I'll attempt to help him. What ticks me off is I got sucked in to the "why why why" game . . . again.

'Sall good I'm just bored with the fruitless effort.

Been playing a cool board game on a game site. The game is the "Royal Game of Ur" The oldest known board game, ancient predecessor of Backgammon, checkers, etc. One of the Curators of the British museum, the leading expert in the cuneiform written language of Sumer discovered written directions for the game.

The game board has been known, and on display in museums around the world for I don't recall how long, 1920s(?). Well, he deciphered the directions and the game is taking off again. Once he figured the game out he realized they'd been seeing the game everywhere, scratched on stone counters in "taverns", clay tablets, etc. everywhere, India to Britain, mid east, Africa. . . .

The website Yourturnmyturn has a practice against the computer version of UR and it's a ball. You can play other people online but I'm just picking it up now. It's: fast, cut throat, strategy intense, played with 4 sided dice and just good fun. It's like backgammon but less complicated and faster, it's easy to see backgammon's origins in UR. Great penny ante gambling game. I bet soldiers, sailors, caravaneers, etc. carried their own dice and markers. The board can be scratched out in the dirt or sketched with a piece of charcoal. 

Beats heck out of aggravating myself talking sense to a teenager. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[old school blacksmith]

a this is for the guys on this blog/site who wants to meet me in person like frosty and it's a few years out of date so picture this; me with longer hair, a little bit skinnier, with a small amount of facial hair. also idc if you guys send me a pic of yourself just make sure it's appropriate for 5 yr old to see. so you've finally met me frosty but not in a tangible way!

I've some last questions for you guys then I may go m.i.a. from this site so here they are;

what type of clay is good for a forge?

what brand of fire proof bricks are best for outdoors?

which is a good hardware store (homepot or lowes) for tools?

estemental  wise how long would the plaster of pairis last (in forging rounds)?

so their you guys have it so see ya'll!!!!!!

[ThomasPowers]

what type of clay is good for a forge?  Pretty much any clay, I've used what I've gotten from local creeks, unused cheap cat litter, local soil, etc and so on.  I would personally prefer cat litter clay to terra cotta clay though as terra cotta is a very low fire clay.

what brand of fire proof bricks are best for outdoors? If they will be out in rain NO brand is good as they will absorb water and break upon heating.

which is a good hardware store (homepot or lowes) for tools? Neither.  Big box stores do not carry extensive ranges of tools and so if they don't have what you want you are out of luck.

estemental  wise how long would the plaster of paris last (in forging rounds)? Since you will be forging 5 inch diameter steel less that one round. (Can you tell me how long it will take to walk to my nearest neighbor to the west?  WHY NOT?)

OK here's my photo from back a number of years and borrowing another smiths big hammer to work on a project, My hair is thinner, beard is whiter and I've lost some weight since then. (Note that no tongs are being used in working this piece of 2.5" sq stock---we welded on a 1" sq stock rod as a handle!)

[Daswulf]

Whatever clay or dirt is under your feet in the area you live could be used for a forge. But I'm Sure it has not been mentioned here yet that the cheapest clay based cat litter will work. 

I can't say on the firebrick but you probably don't want them getting wet then getting them forge temperature hot. I don't think that is good for them. 

Depends on what tools you want for what application. 

And go ahead and just use your plaster of Paris and report back with your findings Please. 

 

Stick around and and do some reading here. You'll learn a thing or two. 

[JHCC]

5 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

I've used what I've gotten from local creeks, unused cheap cat litter, local soil, etc and so on.

The key word there being UNUSED.

[Frosty]

One of the foremen at work used to have a saying his Mother responded with when her kids tried the "why why why" game on her. "Talking sense to a fool is like singing to a mule." 

Mules are actually darned smart and well behaved if you treat them well so I imagine singing to one would be a LOT more worth the effort than talking sense to a kid who's determined to have his own way. 

Of course it's all our fault, his tools don't work right, the steel doesn't behave right, even his fire is at fault. He's just Not Responsible, never is. 

I can't believe I'm responding at all. I guess I'm not as Troll proof as I thought. Oh well.

[Glenn]

They make houses out of brick that last a long time outdoors. The brick is available new or used and the motar should be new and fresh mixed. You can pick up masonry tools at a flea market for little or nothing, or make your own. A hoe to mix and a garden troll to spread for instance. 

The lining between the brick and the fire can be any type of clay. If it cracks or brakes away, replace it. Many times I have added used house bricks to reshape a fire and smeared them with clay mud. Once dry the clay may crack a bit but who cares, the fire works with a different shape, smaller, taller, square, round, etc.

You can make your own tools better and at a lower cost than you can buy them. It is part of being a blacksmith and how we learn.Will you get it right every time, no. That is how you learn what works and what does not work. Make it better the next time.

Do not go m.i.a. but hang in there. As you continue to learn and continue to communicate you will find that all this is just a bump in the road. We want you to succeed and are more than willing to help. We just need to know specific questions so we can give a specific answers. 

Contact me PM if you have questions.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Biggest thing is to go out and DO!  Read and then go try it. Research and then go experiment!  The internet is only helpful if you can apply what you learn to the REAL WORLD.

[old school blacksmith]

hey guys, I need away to get ride of some grass for my forge..... yes I'm finally go to make it!! (over the summer) I just need your opinions on (one last thing) something. here it is, like I said I need to get ride of some grass for my forge. and I need to know what is the best salt to do so? because my forge is starting off to the ground for now and I do not want to damage the lawn by digging.  and please try to keep it to a grocery store wise for the salt. I'll be back to show pics on where/range of the area for where I'm placing it.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Just build your forge on top of the grass, that will get rid of it, no salt needed.

[ThomasPowers]

Can you lay down black plastic and put a boundary of say pressure treated 2x4 or 2x6 and infill with creek gravel or sand or dirt or crusher fines to have a raised floor that can be removed and the grass restored if need be in the future?  Sowing the field with salt is rather permanent and can migrate from the area wanted too.  It's all Carthago Delenda Est!

If it's your only way go to a feed store and ask about the cheapest salt they have, generally a coarse grained rock salt.  Just remember not only will it kill the grass and migrate but it will increase rusting of your tools! Track into the house, etc.

[JHCC]

Don't bother with salt, except on your steak. It's bad in all the ways ThomasPowers enumerates, plus it's unnecessary. Just mow it down as close to the ground as possible, and then smother it with a thick layer of gravel or sand. I would not recommend black plastic, as you're just creating a giant birdbath the first time it rains. The gravel will let any rainwater drain away. The 2x6 border is a good idea, though.

[old school blacksmith]

thx for the advice guys now I can avoid any uncontrolled fires when they happen with this advice. a on the radius that I'm covering is 10 ft. so it applies to it?? if it does COULD bricks, rocks, etc. be use as a safety measure to be put around the area?

[ThomasPowers]

As a flooring material or as a fire containment ring?  (Answer to both is yes though running the hose around in a circle before starting the forge might work as well.  I've done several scrounged brick and sand floors for shops and patios and like it a lot.

[old school blacksmith]

Hey guys it's been a while since I've been on and I need some help with the info that I got from a black Smith in Michigan. he said that there is a place near Gary Indiana that sales blacksmith tools each year and I have forgotten where. so if you guys know what I am talking about please give me the info again because I have bad memory :-( thx for the info if you know!

[ThomasPowers]

Well the IBA conference comes to mind but the big one is next door Quad-State in late September in Troy Ohio (one year I counted a dozen powerhammer for sale on site!  Lately the large stuff hasn't show up as much due to gas prices though.)

Should be posting the info soon as I got my copy in the mail already.

https://sofablacksmiths.org/quadstate-2017-general-info/

I'll give you a hint---I drive in 1500 miles (each way) from New Mexico to attend it every couple of years!

[old school blacksmith]

Idk man I give up u got me. all I'm saying is that I really need the info help because I really need an anvil. so I thought it would be a good thing for me to get most of the tools that I need to get there. And Thomas sorry for what I'm about to say, "this is not the time to play 20 questions or kid games!"  So IF you really know just tell me. This is the most recent and valuable information I got my hands on; and I need to know again so I can go there next time. Also it would stop some of the why game xx!! so let me have the info.... Please?!:-[ and yes I'm actually acting like a ....... Adult!

Edited August 4, 2017 by Mod34
Edited for inappropriate language

[ThomasPowers]

If you didn't get to the IBA conference about an hour north of indianapolis; save your money and go to Quad-State; there were several hundred anvils for sale there my last visit and the blacksmithing equipment could be measured in *tons*.  You are lucky you are so close; I had a friend who came down from Eastern Canada to outfit a smithing school he was setting up at Quad-State as he said the prices and selection were much better!

[Latticino]

12 hours ago, old school blacksmith said:

So IF you really know just tell me. This is the most recent and valuable information I got my hands on; and I need to know again so I can go there next time.

Thomas gave you the information to locate links for the IBA (Indiana Blacksmithing Association).  I thought you young guys were supposed to be computer savvy.  It took me around 1 minute to google them and find their calendar from the info Thomas gave: http://www.indianablacksmithing.org/.  He also gave you better advice, which was to save your money for a larger and more helpful conference (Quad State) which has one of the best tailgate sections around.

[ThomasPowers]

You can even camp at Quad-State to save more money for your buying spree!

[Daswulf]

Old school blacksmith, if I may offer you some advice on tools, first ones you need to get are a pen and notepad to write down good info and advice you get. Many of us can forget something that was told to us even minutes later. So first thing first. And keep it with you, since you never know when you might bump into someone with good info to write down. 

Also take notes on techniques you learn. They will come in handy and you can write down the results from trying them and changes you can make to improve. 

[ThomasPowers]

Cheap vistaprint business cards with a phone number and e-mail address to hand out to folk who "think they know of a supply of tools but they would have to ask and get back to you"  (Mine say Blacksmith and have flames for the background---catches the eye and reminds them of me being a smith)

[old school blacksmith]

Thanks guys for the help! So how's ya'lls forging going? Oh! I almost forgot to ask this but since I'm a newbie and my forge is not ready almost! have you guys devil in sword or knife making? I'm just asking because I need to know if you know what type of metal to work with for when I start since I'm novice.

[Michael Cochran]

2 hours ago, old school blacksmith said:

Thanks guys for the help! So how's ya'lls forging going? Oh! I almost forgot to ask this but since I'm a newbie and my forge is not ready almost! have you guys devil in sword or knife making? I'm just asking because I need to know if you know what type of metal to work with for when I start since I'm novice.

I'm gonna give you a quick tip, learn to use a search engine before you ask a question. Many of your questions have been asked and answered many more times than any of us care to count. Beginner projects and materials for said projects has been discussed numerous times. Blades are not on the list of beginner projects for several good reasons and many of those reasons have been listed repeatedly in different discussions. 

[old school blacksmith]

:-( :-) :-( srry for asking the same questions over and over I have a hard time remembering what questions I've asked. I think I should write them down so I don't re-ask them again! Yes I know that but I'm only starting with knives for basic start and on top of that I'm going to do some of the stuff from a book that is novice too! Meaning book stuff first then blades if you understand, also I know making a blade isn't a novice thing I'm just asking for when I get there (at the level of making blades). So does this clarify things up?