A Beginners Charcoal Forge

[WNC Goater]

7 minutes ago, JHCC said:

Because it's unnecessary and a waste of money. Dirt is both durable and cheap, and you can break it out and reshape it as much as you like. 

Smiths were doing excellent work in dirt forges long before modern refractories were ever invented. 

The only significant issue with clay is its tendency to vitrify and have clinker stick to it.  (Bulking it out with sand or wood ashes should help.) Otherwise, it's more than durable enough.

So as a for instance, I could take half of an old air tank, put a pipe in the bottom with holes, then build and shape a "V" shaped profile of clay/sand/kitty litter in following the natural "U" shape of the half tank, and I'd be good to go? Would this work with coal/coke/charcoal?  I ask because I have that half tank and have just placed a "V" of firebrick to try out with charcoal.  It worked reasonable well though I need to block off some of the holes as the air supply was obviously more than I needed and it went through charcoal like a teenager through potato chips.

[JHCC]

Basically, yes. What you have just described is essentially the same as the "Tim Lively Washtub Forge".

Remember that most forging only needs a fire about as big as a melon. 

[ThomasPowers]

Why not decrease the air rather than to make it blow more strongly through fewer holes?

BTW you do realize that YOU are not very durable compared to an anvil; how are you working to increase your durability?

Remember you are NOT trying to build the one single forge that will see you through your entire time as a smith. Because there is not one.  I have a firepot that I will be putting into it's 5? forge soon as what I need changes and my designs get tweaked for my needs! (I also have 4 different propane forges each one better for its intended uses than the others.)

[WNC Goater]

56 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Why not decrease the air rather than to make it blow more strongly through fewer holes?

BTW you do realize that YOU are not very durable compared to an anvil; how are you working to increase your durability?

Remember you are NOT trying to build the one single forge that will see you through your entire time as a smith. Because there is not one.  I have a firepot that I will be putting into it's 5? forge soon as what I need changes and my designs get tweaked for my needs! (I also have 4 different propane forges each one better for its intended uses than the others.)

Yes, decreasing air flow is what I intend.   As far as durability, keeping in mind thus far I've only worked with a propane forge, it seems poking steel into the fire, and scraping and poking around with a poker manipulating the coals would invariably do damage to the configuration of the clay "pot".  That's why I wondered about satanite or perhaps dry mortar mixed in with the natural clay/sand to make it harder and thus more durable.  But maybe the clay/sand mixture is durable enough as is, I don't know. It is obviously adequate, just wondered if there was a way to make it long lasting. Or as long lasting as it can be considering the materials used. I realize eventually it will degrade and need to be broken out and rebuilt.

I know my propane forge needs regular additions of satanite painted on over the koa wool to fill cracks and other damage caused by inserting steel and poking the walls. I assume a clay forge would too, and likely even more so. Just investigating how to minimize time spent in maintenance and constant "rebuilding" .

Eventually I would like to build or buy a more traditional steel table/firepot coal forge in the future. This would be a start down that road. Just want it to be built the best I can with what I have. 

[ThomasPowers]

As you get better you should find yourself doing less damage to your forge in use...

If you have a constant pressure decreasing the holes should make the blast stronger through the ones left. So make a way to waste some air or a choke on the inlet to the blower. Almost any powered blower will produce way too much air for charcoal; shoot my nice large hand crank blower puts out so much air I tend to prop open the ash dump on the tuyere setup to waste a lot of it.

[jlpservicesinc]

2 hours ago, WNC Goater said:

So as a for instance, I could take half of an old air tank, put a pipe in the bottom with holes, then build and shape a "V" shaped profile of clay/sand/kitty litter in following the natural "U" shape of the half tank, and I'd be good to go? Would this work with coal/coke/charcoal?  I ask because I have that half tank and have just placed a "V" of firebrick to try out with charcoal.  It worked reasonable well though I need to block off some of the holes as the air supply was obviously more than I needed and it went through charcoal like a teenager through potato chips.

 

Nice design but instead of holes in just one place.. Do them like 9 or 10 inches along the length of the pipe.. This makes it so you can make the firepot longer or shorter just by filling in the holes.. 

Portland Cement if mixed with a solution of saturated salt brine works pretty well.. 

 

Charcoal likes narrow sides as this keeps the charcoal from floating around or falling to the sides..  12-14" internal width.. It really comes down to what you plan on making.. 

 

Small hooks and stuff up to about 1/2" you can get away with a pretty small and narrow setup..   Larger material and you need a substantially larger area.. 

[ThomasPowers]

Suggestion:  run the airpipe all the way out the other end of the forge---having a floor flange mounted on the back wall and screwing the pipe it it works well. Then make a ramrod of steel---I used a steel pulley with a steel rod mounted in it that will fit fairly closely in the pipe.  You now have an adjustable length tuyere. If your blower is too strong you can take the ramrod totally out and see if that helps. (This was based on my first forge I built around 1980/1981, fueled by charcoal with an electric blower.)

[WNC Goater]

36 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Nice design but instead of holes in just one place.. Do them like 9 or 10 inches along the length of the pipe.. This makes it so you can make the firepot longer or shorter just by filling in the holes.. 

Portland Cement if mixed with a solution of saturated salt brine works pretty well.. 

 

Charcoal likes narrow sides as this keeps the charcoal from floating around or falling to the sides..  

 

Actually the pipe I used to experiment with the fire brick is 1 1/2" and DOES have holes along its length, the thought at the time being, I needed that much airflow but additionally, as you said, I could use it for a long fire.  As it was, it worked great but ate up a lot of fuel and I realized I didn't need that much airflow, that is unless there is a long piece that needs heating, I think I need to plug the holes, maybe by dropping a bolt in each.  As Thomas pointed out, that may increase airflow out of the few holes left open. Thomas' idea of a plunger to block holes is also a thought....I can work on that.  

I feel I have hijacked this thread. Apologies to the OP.

 

[JHCC]

1 hour ago, WNC Goater said:

I feel I have hijacked this thread. Apologies to the OP.

 

IFI. 

No thread is safe. 

[Jasent]

The heat treating forge I'm doing is made from a long double wall (1/4") fence post. I plugs one end and cut a 3/8" groove up the center about 24" long. My forge is done in 2" pipe so I can slide my blower pipe in the post. If I need it shorter I just slide it in farther. It's in the ground right now but I'm working on making it in to a table. The fire pot is a long V trough. It can be a tiny fire or a 24" fire. I'll post pics when I can

[JHCC]

23 minutes ago, Jasent said:

The heat treating forge I'm doing is made from a long double wall (1/4") fence post. I plugs one end and cut a 3/8" groove up the center about 24" long. My forge is done in 2" pipe so I can slide my blower pipe in the post. If I need it shorter I just slide it in farther. It's in the ground right now but I'm working on making it in to a table. The fire pot is a long V trough. It can be a tiny fire or a 24" fire. I'll post pics when I can

That's a neat idea, although I'd worry about the forge's heat warping the post and messing up the fit of the sliding inner pipe. Keep us posted.

[Jasent]

I wondered about that too. But the bottom of the fire pot is the gap. Charcoal dosent touch the post, just the fire pot does. So far I have used it to heat treat one blade that was too long to fit in my normal forge. Worked great

[Jasent]

1 hour ago, Scrambler82 said:

And here I thought the Electrical LB Connector was a great idea to hold the Hair Dryer, and adjustable air flow from both the dryer and the LB Cover !

It was mentioned to leave a space between the Blower end and the LB, wouldn't have thought of that !

 

I didn't see that mentioned.  I'm a newbie but don't see a reason for that. From the lb the pipe goes 24" in to a T. There is a 14" ash trap below the T and another 14" above the T before it goes in to the fire pot.  All my air control is right at my knuckles when standing at the forge. 

[JHCC]

9 minutes ago, Jasent said:

I didn't see that mentioned.  I'm a newbie but don't see a reason for that. From the lb the pipe goes 24" in to a T. There is a 14" ash trap below the T and another 14" above the T before it goes in to the fire pot.  All my air control is right at my knuckles when standing at the forge. 

Jasent, when you quote a comment with a photo in it, unless you are specifically referring to a detail that MUST be illustrated and cannot be described, please delete the photo from the quote. It really eats up bandwidth, and makes the forum harder to read for those with slower connections. Thanks.

(And remember: you have approximately an hour to edit a comment once you hit "Submit Reply".)

[ThomasPowers]

In that example the Back of the electrical fitting is open and they are using it's cover plate as an air control valve by only using one bolt in it and so a gap is probably not needed as you can waste enough air that way.

[gote]

On 2017-05-24 at 6:29 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Why not decrease the air rather than to make it blow more strongly through fewer holes?

 

I have found that if the air pressure is above a certain level, there is no risk of clinker (or anything) blocking the hole but the holes must be much smaller than the those usually shown in IFI threads amd the fan running continuously.

[Jasent]

8 hours ago, gote said:

I have found that if the air pressure is above a certain level, there is no risk of clinker (or anything) blocking the hole but the holes must be much smaller than the those usually shown in IFI threads amd the fan running continuously.

Only trouble is with charcoal you get almost no clinker ( I normally find tiny stone like chunks about pea size) and would be very wasteful to keep air on continuously

[gote]

On 2017-05-29 at 2:47 PM, Jasent said:

Only trouble is with charcoal you get almost no clinker ( I normally find tiny stone like chunks about pea size) and would be very wasteful to keep air on continuously

Yes of course, My remark was intended to be general since Thomas' question was of a general nature. You are right it is more pertinent  to coal but coal has been mentioned in this thread.