Eric Green Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Hello, my name's Eric. I'll be 31 in June and I been in Love with Blacksmithing since before i could drive. I used to flatten Pipes onto old 4-way tire iron. Gaming took my life for some time but I always wanted to beat hot metal. a large part of why I'm not getting going until now, Location. about 7 months ago we moved to a new place and its got great area, lots of out buildings and a huge tractor Garage + Shop. I caught a couple episodes of Forged in Fire. We it resparked my want to get back into Smithing. I have been scouring the net for information and I'm basically just gathering my tools. I have a table grinder with grinding and brush wheel, My brother has a decent sized Vice grip i can use while i get my Anvil located, for not i'm just going to use a piece of Railroad track and shape it a little. I have a couple Drums, a 30 gal and a 55 gal I'm going to use one for the 55 forge i saw here on the forums. all that's left is getting my hammers. and one of the first things i want to work at is making some Tongs. a couple stocks of rebar and smaller stock for a rivet and I shouldn't have issues. I Live in the Southeast part of Kansas, Specifically Arma. I would love to get some in person pointers if someone is close by. aside for that I'm eager to get beating Hot metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 Only thing stopping me from getting going is the Anvil and forge. I have a piece of Railroad Track sourced. and i'm going to go to a couple auto body places next week to check for a Brake Rotor. and probably have to get some stuff for my brother's welder. I have a couple Idea's for future projects for a couple people, obviously i need practice first, but I have a couple goals for later. Tempering/repair practice. I have a few factory blades, the issues range from the janky tang to just dull blades. I was thinking of later getting quenching practice in with the stable ones and possibly billet practice reforging others. are most factory swords a good enough steel to reforge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 You need to slow down and build a forge. Search JABOD just a box of dirt and make one. A sledge hammer head or any heavy metal object will do as an anvil, heavier the better. Rebar is not your best choice of metal. Run the alleys, or go to where they generate scrap for the metal you need. A 2 pound or so flea market hammer will do to start, Once you start working hot metal the fun begins. Learn what and how the hammer moves metal. Make small simple objects at first, then move to larger more complex projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 I know that Glenn, that's what I said, I need practice. I have half the mats for my 55 Forge, and Hammers are what I'm looking for. Rebar was to make some simple tongs from. I've seen several videos on it. I have no intentions of making them yet. but when i go scrapping I plan to watch for lengths of rebar or stock to make the tongs from. I have some Firewood for fuel for the forge right now. I'll make a charcoal retort later on. I been studying your Post, Forges and Fires. It's some great information. the Knife Goals are a much later on project, but I wanted to set goals or where I want to be eventually with my skills. Something to work towards. that basically what any specific item creation is. Skill goals. This is something I don't want to mess up and keep with so I plan on making sure I Take it slow and learn to do it right. Definitely need to search the forums more and find some Hammer Information. because I'm lost when i see posts about types of hammers, or a part of the hammer's surface for striking. I have some ideas but scouring the forums is on the To do list for when I'm ready to start. Had a Birthday for this weekend so money was tight. going to flea market on Thursday and drive through alleys for metals. TTYL, I need to relax, Had to down stack several Pallets today at work so i'm exhausted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 REBAR IS NOT A GOOD MATERIAL FOR TONGS NO MATTER HOW MANY VIDEOS USE IT! Look for sucker rod and remember to treat it as a medium carbon steel when forging it! As for "most factory made swords" Are most cars Fords---or are there a wide range of manufacturers making different makes? My take is that no most factory made swords are not good alloys for re-working; but some are. They will almost always be more expensive than buying good alloys to start with and will not be good shapes to reforge into better blades. The better alloys will NOT be improved being worked by a beginner but most likely ruined. Learn to drive before getting into Formula 1 races! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hephaestus Smith Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Why,? and is rebar better than mild steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 rebar is, at least in the US, is made from the scraps of different types of steel of various alloys all fused together. that means that you can have 3 types of steel in a foot of bar. this makes it unpredictable to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 IMHO ... rebar usually can be found real cheap, relatively speaking.....so it's good to practice on. Can be used for S Hooks, etc in the shop......NOT for anything serious .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Which is precisely why it's no good for tongs. You need material that you know will be the right strength for the job. Use the rebar for something less critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Like making concrete strong? Forget about rebar till later, much later. Save yourself headaches and buy new steel. Using scrounged stock involves learning a rather specialized skill set, evaluating unknown steels for usefulness. Rebar puts you on this learning curve too but it's always different. Even folk with years of experience using salvage get fooled, there must be a couple few thousand steel alloys, some are very different, some forge, some don't, is it hot short, cold short, air hardening, etc. etc.? Just buy new steel, you'll learn blacksmith's skills much faster, once you've developed proficiency learning to evaluate salvage is much easier. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Frosty said: Like making concrete strong? Blacksmithing-wise, silly. It's not that making concrete strong (or, more precisely, giving it greater tensile strength) isn't important; it's that in a blacksmithing context, rebar is better for things whose failure won't mean hot metal bouncing up in your face or falling on your foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Free metal is not free if it requires you to spend extra time working it into usable forms. Rebar tends to be rough on hands if you don't forge it smooth. It can work differently from piece to piece or even within the length of a single stick. For me I buy rebar for the same price as sucker rod at the scrap yard and so prefer to use the material that is a better alloy and less work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 21 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: I buy rebar for the same price as sucker rod at the scrap yard and so prefer to use the material that is a better alloy and less work. Are you saying that rebar is for suckers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 6 hours ago, JHCC said: Blacksmithing-wise, silly. It's not that making concrete strong (or, more precisely, giving it greater tensile strength) isn't important; it's that in a blacksmithing context, rebar is better for things whose failure won't mean hot metal bouncing up in your face or falling on your foot. Rebar is more commonly added to prevent cure checking and provide the tensile component of bridging strength. That applies directly to blacksmithing, I laid almost double the rebar in my shop slab and a bit more than doubled under where I planned on putting the power hammer. It also connects all the gozintas electrically so I don't have ground cables tripping me everywhere for light welding. Each gozinta is welded into an intersection of rebar and so dropping a piece of 2" sq. solid bar in a couple few and doing some serious structural steel bending with the porta power hasn't caused any visible effects in the concrete. I laid the rebar specifically to be in a blacksmith shop. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Well out this way sucker rod is a rather common scrap material and used a lot for fencing (as is oilfield pipe as well). I'd expect to find it in a lot of old oil field states and perhaps a dearth in other states. I'd take care near sour gas wells though, Hydrogen Sulfide contamination is not to be messed with. Are there other location specific scrap items? Hmm anchor chain is not not very common out here where we have so few large lakes large enough to water ski on. (I have seen some though, used for dragging between large bulldozers to clear brush off pasture(?) land.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 On 5/13/2017 at 0:41 PM, Eric Green said: the Knife Goals are a much later on project, but I wanted to set goals or where I want to be eventually with my skills. there seems to be some miscommunication, that last thing I posted, the above was something I stated. And I stand by that. I know I need practice, I have no intentions of jumping into knife making or tool building. I set goals for what i want to do later on. this way I can keep moving forward. Aside for that, thanks for the feedback on the rebar and such. it's why i joined here, so i can avoid making frustrating mistakes. PROGRESS!!! finished this a little bit ago. it's set up for side blast. I felt it was the simpler of the two options in Glenn's write up. So far the barrel cost me $5 and i got 2 4.5" metal cutting disks for an angle grinder. so I'm only in my starting forge $11(including our ridiculous tax rate) And yes, that is a 2.5lb hammer with bar stock welded on for the handle... My brother is not a very intelligent person at times. the hammer and chisel I used to round the edges. On another note, this beauty is sitting at a local flea market. I was talking to the flea Market owner, and the owner of the booth this is in,Phil, was a contestant on Forged in Fire. I plan on stopping by and asking if i could get his contact info and see if he would be willing to do some hands on Basics with me. Near his booth is another booth with 3 Forge Blowers in it. ranging from 180-280(?) in price. made me wish I had that much extra cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 INterested is both yes and No. Yes I'm interested it's a 150LBs Peter Wright. And at the same time, that chip/delaminating is something i don't have the skills to fix, and that's IF i had the $685 he has on it. My Little brother brought me a present from his house today. 4-5 foot of Rail road Track. I'm a little skeptic, its got weathering on the lower section. the bottom is still flat and the thick section is smooth. I should be able to get a good beginners anvil out of this. If anything I have the small chunk as a back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 The face also looks quite thin in the sweetspot; so a lot of work was done on it or some idiot has resurfaced it one or more times over it's life. Either way not a top dollar anvil. I would not pay over US$2 a pound for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Eric: For the asking price I'd roll my eyes and walk away, that old lady has seen some hard work and taken her lumps. Without being able to lay hands on her I wouldn't say if she's still a working tool but certainly not for that $. The rail will make a fine anvil, couple in fact. If you start with it resting flange up and use a 12 TPI or coarser hack saw you can cut that by hand and have a nice end. The trick to cutting rail with a hack or band saw is to cut from the flange so the teeth never try to cut the hardened rail surface. Coming from underneath the few thousandths of an inch of hard steel the teeth can snap off the bite, it works a treat I've done it many times. Took me a little over 10 minutes with a 8tpi hack saw. Anyway, if you cut it and mount a piece on end you'll have an outstanding anvil. The more steel directly under the hammer blow the more efficient it will move metal. The remaining web and flange can be ground into many useful tools you'd think of as "hardy tools." Without sticking above the face of the anvil having the hardy there wall the time isn't an unacceptable risk. You don't want to leave your hardy in the hardy hole when you aren't using it, a missed blow could have you punching it with your fist. This is a B-A-D thing. The flat surface represented by the flange isn't as useful as you think and trying to use it for an anvil face you'll discover it's not well enough supported to be worth the trouble of hitting it. My advice is go with the rail and keep your eyes open for a honey deal on a London pattern anvil in good condition. Be patient a poor tool isn't worth hurrying to buy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Thank you Frosty and Thomas. Picked up a metal cutting disk for a 7in angle grinder(Home Depot) and an Engineers Hammer(Flea Market) today. What I'm thinking is using a flap disk to flatten part of the rail and do some rounding some. Probably going to go with a 10in section to start. Might look out for a chunk of metal to make a horn with. even if it's just a Hardy Horn. Only thing i have left is something for air flow. we're not outdoorsy so i don't have a Air matress pump or even a Hair dryer for some air flow. i combed the Flea Market for one of those things or something that was electrical and moved air. Nothing, sadly, came up. I text my little brother since he camps out see if he had an extra air matress pump i could get from him. I too felt the $ for that Anvil was too much. the damage was too much. I still want to get the guy's contact info. Sicne he was a contestant on FiF there're a couple others in the area, My brother knows a guy that black smiths. I may talk to him. I want to get some pointers and even maybe work with them a little to learn better than youtube or blogs can teach. I have found a couple really good videos on the tube though. a guy did a real good detailed video on Tapering. Thanks again for the info, got a lot more stuff to do I'm hoping to get some fire in the forge this weekend. I'll post pics even if its just a simple break in on the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Don't bother with ten inches: make it the full height that you'll need! Standing comfortably, have someone measure from the floor to your wrist. Cut the track at that height and stand it on end. All you'll need is some kind of stand to keep it vertical, and you'll have enough depth under the hammer blow to give you more rebound than Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton combined. If you haven't looked at the threads on IFI about RR track anvil stands, do. Start with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Many of the super efficient home heating furnaces use a blower to help the exhaust out as it's robbed of all the heat that usually powers the draft in the chimney. When a furnace dies it's not usually the exhaust assist blower that's gone bad---they would get replaced as a "minor" issue. So find your local HVAC place and go ask if they have any such blowers in their bone pile. Tell them you are starting to smith using solid fuel and need one for an air supply. Many places will be happy to give you one. I'd not offer more than US$5 if they want money for something they are going to scrap! I'd go to the next HVAC place... Remember you DON'T want the large squirrel cage fan that pushes air through the heat ducts!!!!!!! You want the exhaust assist blower... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 @JHCC I understand the principle behind a vertical stand, I think. Thanks for the information. However, I think for now I'm sticking with what I'm doing. I need to learn basics before i go indepth with a vertical RR anvil. I have more than enough track to still make one. So while i learn some basics of smithing I'll research the vertical RR anvils. Thomas, that's awesome. we have a couple HVACs around I'll contact them after the holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Green Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 well I have two anvils. i already had the 14 inch section removed. but i whacked off another 2.5 foot section today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.