Setup help & introduction

[JamesSr]

Hi, my name is Jim. I am 37, a father of a two & three year old. I am a carpenter by day & well a busy father after. As my life is chaotic and I'm always busy either with work or taking care of others I needed some serious me time! So the adventure began, first it was straight razors but that just wasn't enough for me. I buy, sell & restore them. I got involved with the forums but I don't feel as if I actually fit there. I have nothing bad to say it's just you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. Now after taking a serious interest in blacksmithing & after long careful consideration I started buying tools. As I stated in a father and everyone knows that means "on a budget" so I bought a used 70# anvil without a makers mark, the only mark it has is on the left foot a 7 stamped in there. I paid just over a $1 per pound. I'd like to I.D. It but I have so many more important questions, like #1 being I have bought a forge to save time and hey the price seemed right ($130.00) it came with a 1" Rex burner and the forge inside diameter is six inches round by twelve long, made with refractory cement and by eye I'd say near 1/4 inch plate steel. So from what a have read it seems the burner is more than sufficient for the space. My question is do you think this will work out well and most importantly how do I tune the burner? I have played around with different air/fuel ratios and I just can't seem to get a " jet like" blue flame. In fact all I'm getting is a weak flame or I get what appears to be an invisible yet loud flame? I can't help but wonder if I should have went with coal?? Anyway I am going to end it here as I have so many questions I don't want to over load one post. Any help getting this burner flowing right and opinions on my setup even constructive criticism is welcome. I just want to learn & learn the right way. Sorry that I'm all over the place but I wanted to introduce myself and get my first questions out.

Thanks,

Jim.

[CMS3900]

Welcome to IFI!

Sounds like your on the path.  The best thing to do for both questions is post pictures, lots of pictures.  Take pictures of the anvil, the forge, the burner and one of the flame when the burners lit.  Also, post a picture of the regulator you are using. A weak flame could be a clogged gas orifice, A/F ratio tuned wrong, or a regulator issue.

[ThomasPowers]

Without telling us what you want to do with the forge makes asking will it work out well a bit open ended.

First question I have is what are you using for a propane regulator and a propane tank. A weak flame could be either trying to use a low pressure regulator like some of the preset gas grill regulators or using a tank with a fussy fast usage preventor.

[JamesSr]

P.s. I know there are posts that already ask part of my question and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. I just mainly want to connect, make some friends and get input on my new setup. I'm trying to upload a pic but I'm on my phone and it is slow. I am really grateful to have this opportunity and appreciate all who may help.

Thanks again,

Jim

[CMS3900]

From that picture it looks like you have a Low pressure regulator, which could be your issue.  Usually the one's I see most have a wheel on one side for adjustment.

Something like this: http://a.co/aJNT4T0

Also, before you get heckled, I would put your location in your profile so people can know if their near you to help out.

[JamesSr]

Hi guys thanks for the info! Pics are taking forever and a day to upload due to my phone. I will take all the pics requested. I already think I found one of the major issues being that the regulator looks like it is for a cheap grill but to be honest I wouldn't know the difference?  I'm going out right now to see. Oh as far as what I want to do with it, I want to start by making some tools, such as tongs being first. I would like to work my way into knives and razors. After a while and a lot of practice I want to work my way up to forge welding wootz, Damascus. I'm not in a hurry and I'm not unrealistic I know this is an art and it doesn't come without a lot of work. I have the patience and the passion I need experience and some guidance. Can't forget more money to buy more tools & materials. Thanks again 

[CMS3900]

Tongs, generally are one of the first things people want to make, but their efforts usually would be better spent learning basic smithing techniques. 

My personal recommendations for any smith who is just getting into it, and has acquired the tools you have are:

Join your local ABANA affiliate and meet some people.  Also join ABANA

Go to http://markaspery.com and buy his books.  Some might think them pricey, I did, but their worth every penny.

Take some classes if time and funds permit, or look for open forge nights with your affiliate.

Go to Kens Custom Iron and get some quick tong kits.  Put them together and practice the skills from the books.

Search on here how to make a anvil stand out of 4x4's or 6x6's.

[ThomasPowers]

Quick before the short editing period is over---delete the pictures on the duplicate posts!

ABANA Affiliates may not be a possibility if he lives outside the USA, we have folks from over 100 countries participating here, which is why we suggest adding a general location to your profile to allow things like "Stop by and I'll help you through the basics!"  I can tell you are not in my neck of the woods because of the green stuff on the ground...green stuff on the ground costs money where I live!

Do you have a propane supply company near you?  One that does more than trade tanks?  If so go ask them about a 0-15 psi or 0-30 psi regulator for your forge.  Like may be on a turkey fryer...

Also if you are in the USA go to your local public library and ILL some of the blacksmithing books mentioned on this site.  Lots of things can be done using long pieces so tongs are not needed.

Wootz is generally not welded as it's a crucible product, though I have seen Al Pendray forge weld wootz and pattern welded chevrons together for a blade at Quad-State one year...

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Good score on your first anvil. Quite an ingenious anvil stand, I love it however you will find it gives some when forging steel. I would suggest making a stand that is more solid, a tree stump or 4x4's banded together. Another suggestion for searching the forum is use google with a search like this ("iforgeiron" anvil stands) without the brackets, the search function of the forum leaves a lot to be desired.

[JamesSr]

Thomas, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by=

"Quick before the short editing period is over---delete the pictures on the duplicate posts!"??? 

I am not the greatest tech stuff. 

[JamesSr]

I did start looking into ABANA, I found the schedule to their next meet in my area which is Buffalo, New York (niagara chapter) as for the anvil stand that's something I threw it on to check things out. Id never really work on it, yet I have to admit it's more stable than I anticipated lol. Man I have to say you all are AWESOME! I have tried other forums and the response is 2nd to none her! In fact I felt as if others where a little too high on the horse but here I really feel good! this forum is truly priceless. 

[ThomasPowers]

When I was looking at this you had 3 duplicates of your post with the picture.  It now seems to have resolved and only 1 shows up on my system so NEVERMIND!

This site has a limited editing period for your posts so if you don't catch something fast it's there forever!

[CMS3900]

lol that depends on which thread you read, or what your question is.  Ask about melting scrap to forge with and see what happens.

If your a east coaster, also check out SOFA, Their Quad State show is really great.

[ThomasPowers]

Well we do expect people to do a lot of their own research, not to admit to felonies on an open forum, not to suggest things that can result in death or serious health issues, not to try to gouge other smiths. We try to be understanding about language (and typing) difficulties as we do have members from around the world.

Now bad language is strictly forbidden and this is enforced!  Anybody should be able to refer their granddaughters here at any age and not worry about what they would see. Also *I* would prefer that if you don't have experience in something you refrain from posting suggestions on it, especially ones based on ideas you have gotten from fantasy books, Hollywood, video games or un-vetted youtube videos...

[JamesSr]

Thomas, I feel that everything you said is very understanding as I would agree to every word. I am here to learn and hopefully make some like minded friends. I am a big believer in giving respect and having self respect. I am brand new to this and it will be I while before I'm giving any suggestions regarding smithing. I wouldn't like if someone was giving me suggestions not knowing the first thing about this fine art. I admit I am somewhat intimidated, this is not something you just jump into! I have some tools and as far as I have gone is cleaning them, making sure all the lines are sealed & safe etc. I am taking this slow and taking all the information I am receiving and using it. I am ordering books today, I am linking up with ABANA asap. I value the information you all have given me and I will use every bit I can. I am not trying to bite to big, I said I wanted to do a set of tongs but I'm green and made a mistake thinking it would be a good place to start instead of going with the urge to forge a knife LOL. I think that it would be ridiculous to think I could just buy a forge and successfully make anything the first try. Though I thought tongs would be semi-possible meaning I might have been able to make an ugly but decently functional after trying for a lot longer than it should take. That is a good reason I'm here, to bring me back to reality:) 

[ThomasPowers]

Actually I would expect you to succeed on your first project---if the project was chosen to match your skill level!  You already have a great leap forward as you are using propane and so don't have to learn both the care and feeding and use of a solid fuel forge *AND* how to forge steel at the same time.  (I expect a new smith to end up destroying their workpiece on a regular basis if they are using a solid fuel forge---I know I did when starting 36 years ago without an internet, ABANA Affiliate, etc; but just with Weygers' book in one hand and the tongs in the other hand. Electric blowers make this even more likely to happen!)

I teach a "set the hook" class on a regular basis and I expect every student to walk in the door clueless and walk out the door with several items they have forged themselves *and* the knowledge that they *CAN* forge steel---but need a lot more practice to do it easily and *well*!

[arkie]

James, I think your approach to smithing is taking the right course...patience, look, listen, read, and learn.  You have gotten some good advice on many matters so far.  One I particularly would reinforce is the tong issue.  Even though I've never used them, CMS3900 had a good recommendation regarding the Ken's tongs.  Better to start with one or two inexpensive, usable, fully functional, well made tongs to work with rather than be frustrated with (1) trying to successfully make your first set and (2) not having tongs that will work as designed.  Then, as you progress, make tongs that suit your needs.  You will bugger up some of the first, but then that goes along with the learning process.  Happy forging!

[jlpservicesinc]

Welcome aboard..  I know you said you were interested in razors..     

 

But, what else are you interesting in making? 

[JamesSr]

49 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Welcome aboard..  I know you said you were interested in razors..     

 

But, what else are you interesting in making? 

Well I'd also like to make many different knives with a variety of different types of steel. I also want to make some hammers, I have seen layered steel hammers that looked so beautiful and I would love to someday have the tools and the skill to achieve such a project. Id love to have a power hammer but as far as I have seen they are very pricy. I wish they could be bought under a thousand but I figure even if I could get one under a grand I'd rather pay my dues wit hand hammering until my skill set advances.

Here's more pics

Ok so I did the best I could with the pictures. Thanks again everyone!! 

[ThomasPowers]

yup that regulator is your problem: RA328 Low Pressure Regulator   you need an adjustable high pressure regulator.  If someone sold that to you as a working setup I'd talk to them about fraud....

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard James, glad to have you. Most real hardware stores will carry propane regulators though you might have to buy a weed burner to get a deal on one. 0-30psi is what I'm seeing recently but I'm in Alaska so my sources are limited. By "real" hardware store I mean other than big box stores, Lowes or the Home Depot aren't likely to carry the more serious hardware and plumbing and the folk working there are NOT necessarily qualified in the department they're working in. 

A propane distributor's storefront is a good place too, they'll probably have a few on the shelf in back but don't let the counter person get you stuck on inches of water column, manometer readings, etc. you're not talking domestic supply you need high output high pressure.

I'd be awful tempted to rotate that forge 90* so the burner was entering horizontally at the top of the cylinder. It might not be the best orientation for heating but it'd sure get the hose away from extreme heat when you turn the burner off. Hot air rises and will go up a vertical burner like a chimney. Propane hoses like that are generally pretty flame resistant but I prefer a conservative safety approach.

Once you get a decent regulator you'll be able to tune the flame with the choke sleeve open leans the flame out close it richens it up. You'll figure it out with a little tinkering, there are lots of pictures of good burner flames and how they heat steel in the gas forge section. 

You're going to fit right in here. Like puns, know any good jokes or tall tales? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mtnstream]

Hi James...I got in to blacksmithing in much the same way you are. If I had it to do again I would start out making tools you can use. My steps, I am sure the more experienced would do it differently but here goes. First, since you have the forge and anvil, buy a good heavy duty set of tongs. I made some first off and burned my arm because I didn't have the skill or knowledge to make them properly. That hot steel will bounce around a lot as you learn to hit it square. It's worth the 40 bucks to get a good pair of tongs to hold that hot steel tight. Second, get an old coil spring, cut 8 inches off, heat it up and straighten. It's amazing what you can learn and how good it feels just to straighten that first piece. Make a number of punches, chisels, cutters etc. You will learn the basics and have a great time straightening, making round and square tapers, figuring out the heats etc. Best of all you will use them as you progress. Tongs, knives, etc. etc. all build on the basics you will learn. Good luck and enjoy!

[VaughnT]

1:  Your anvil is just a junky cast iron job without a tool steel face.  Better than beating on concrete, but not by much.

2:   Your anvil stand is seriously detracting from the functionality of the anvil.  You need a stout stand, even if you want it to be mobile.  Stool legs are way not good.

3:  Making tongs is not a good project to learn on.  Tongs are a critical component in the forging process.  Good tongs are light, balanced and grip the metal securely -- something newbies rarely have the ability to achieve.  You are far far far better served by shelling out the bucks for good tongs from a reputable maker because that will allow you to maximize your time at the forge, learning the basics rather than fighting with the steel.

4:  If you want a good 1st Project - make a set of shelf brackets for the house.  Two simple 90º bends in some 1"x1/4" bar stock, supported by a nice s-curve or scroll in the same material, held together with some rivets.... and you've learned some valuable skills while producing something that the whole family can see and enjoy.  And making them isn't nearly as easy as typing it out!  You'll have a tremendous sense of achievement every time you look at that shelf, and the rest of the family will get a kick out of pointing it out to friends that drop by.  The only real downside is that once the wife sees it, she'll add a hundred new things to the Honey Do list.

5:  Get with the local ABANA chapter.  All the talk on the internet pales in value when compared to first-hand experience.

[SLAG]

 Mr.James Sr.,

Forget about making tongs, first out. They are way above the skill level of most beginners. There is a simple way to not need tongs. Use a long enough piece of stock and you can hold it in your hand. Iron is not a great heat transferer, so that is possible. (the heat only travels slowly up the stock).

By doing so, you can concentrate on effective hammer control. It takes a while to get good at it, even though it looks easy . 

Get a good block of steel to hammer on. And forget about rescuing and using rebar. It is junk and consists of mystery steel. Don't set yourself up to fail. Steel is cheap. Buy some new mild steel so you know what you are working with.

Get started, and enjoy it.

SLAG.

[ThomasPowers]

When buying steel at the local dealer I always ask if they have any "damaged, rusty or off sized" stuff, as that generally is not an issue with me and by helping them clean out their problem stock I generally get a GREAT price and make them happy to deal with a "small order" guy to boot!