jlpservicesinc Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Welcome aboard Jonathan.. Ok, here we go, I like to ramble and I'm opinionated like a skunks got stink.. I started when I was very young... With that said I started with a 15lbs anvil.. From there I moved up to a 150lbs anvil.. I made knives originally then moved into forging anything but specializing in Colonial hardware, tools, and such.. My main anvil became a 175lbs Hay budden which I used for 30+ years on a daily basis (for nearly 10 years it was a 12hr work day)..... I used it like the old blacksmiths did. With no concern for it wearing out. I made hardie tools in the anvil, 16lbs sledges used on it for forging, day in and day out.. Problem with that kind of use is.. Once it's broken there is no good way to fix it, and some would say now that it's anvil abuse.. While the HB anvil has held up amazingly (only chips are the ones it came with) and the only damage done was the mis blows I have done in the last 3 years.. And now coming back from retirement , (getting the rust off (semi retired from forging) has done more damage then my first 27years of using it. ( i like a perfectly smooth face) My problem now is most of these anvils are 100+ years old.. All were made by hand (except cast ones steel or iron) but nearly all were forged by hand.. Each anvil you see where made by a smith making decisions, and each anvil will be just slightly different.. again made by hand.. I have a lot more respect for the anvils and the methods used to make them now.. If you are lucky enough to find a good used anvil for little money and it's mint I can guarantee you in short order as a new forger you will dent the face of it.. As an old forger I have done more damage with mis strikes in 3 years then I did in 27years of use.. Each hammer miss strike no matter how small bothers me to no end because there is no reason for it other than my lack of skill and no good way to fix this other than to do a complete anvil redress which will be covered at some other time.. I have 12 anvils.. I plan on opening a school.. I recently bought a brand new 275lbs Peddinghaus #12 for the demo trailer from Zoro tools I had a 25% coupon list price is 1999.99.. It brought it down to just under 1500.00 with free delivery and with Ebates (got another 29.99 back in cash) It comes with a lifetime warranty, It has nearly 90% rebound if you believe in such things.. I would not hesitate to make a hardie tool in the anvil.. I'm not going to mind smacking hot metal with a 16lbs sledge on it.. I don't abuse my anvils but I use the snot out of them.. So, while I feel badly or even worry about breaking a vintage anvil now I could care less about breaking a new one.. So while I'm a historical nut and appreciate old anvils I also worry now about breaking them as they do break and it can be as simple as to cold a day without a pre heat or knocking off a corner because of a mis strike.. I originally used to redress anvils by heating up the faces in the forge and hammering them all back out and rehardening them.(not a project for a newbie or oldbie for that matter). And HB anvils because of the solid steel tops made this a lifetime anvil (I've never had to redress the 175lbs) because there was no face plate to come loose. Now it's more common to take welding hardface rod and fix them that way.. While i don't agree with this for anvils with minor damage, if it brings back life to anvils abused or severely worn it can make the anvil whole again and perfectly serviceable I'm all for it.. In fact I will more than likely start to look for more abused anvils and restore them with hard facing because students or newbies will hit the anvils face and then the damage is easy to fix and for little money.. And as for size.. I don't agree with most.. I like a heavier anvil.. 200lbs is just about right for medium service.. here is the rub as you get into larger weight anvils. Both the face gets wider and the hardie hole gets bigger.. i make colonial hardware.. some of the areas being forged are only 2 or 3" across.. a 200lbs anvil will have a face width of roughly 5".. This now means having to use a set (small hardie anvil) in the hardie hole.. Or a double horn anvil where now you have a tapered flat to work on without having to have extra set tools.. Keep in mind the stand the anvil mounts to if it is solid can make a lighter anvil perform like a heavier anvil as long as someone doesn't go over board and understands the limitations in this kind of thinking.. So.. Just starting out, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't spend to much time looking for anvils (unless I found a smoking deal) Then I'd buy it and squirrel it away .. I would find a local group and join them for forge in's.. I would get an Anvil like object and use the dickens out of it.. Once I decided on what kind of smithing I am interested in (By then you will have experience as you have worked on different forges, anvils etc) then go on the anvil hunt in earnest all the while saving up you pennies.. The pictures are of the 275lbs Peddinghaus (Rigid) new anvil, , and the 175HB which had no scars up till 3 years ago... a like brand new Eagle 150lbs anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan William Perry Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Hey @kayakersteve can you tell me how your competitor compares to a steel anvil. Rebound and such Thanks @jlpservicesinc money isn't a problem for me I'm 15 years old and this may sound cocky but I have more than I know what to do with. And I already have an anvil but I'd like a new anvil for the same reason you said. If it doesn't have a history I wouldn't test myself up if I damaged it. The anvil I currently have is a 1830 mouse hole and it has a family history with me as well so I don't feel like I can really do a lot of work on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 11 hours ago, Jonathan Pinkston said: Hey @kayakersteve can you tell me how your competitor compares to a steel anvil. Rebound and such Thanks @jlpservicesinc money isn't a problem for me I'm 15 years old and this may sound cocky but I have more than I know what to do with. And I already have an anvil but I'd like a new anvil for the same reason you said. If it doesn't have a history I wouldn't test myself up if I damaged it. The anvil I currently have is a 1830 mouse hole and it has a family history with me as well so I don't feel like I can really do a lot of work on it If Money is not the problem congrats.. then go with the Refflinghaus or the Peddinghaus.. While other anvils come in at a decent Rockwell hardness and some will even get a little harder with use.. A harder face for a given amount of work will show less wear and tear.. Again I would suggest finding a group to forge with and then figuring out what you like to make.. This will make a large difference in anvil size and shape.. As a Newbie the anvil like object will work wonders especially as you learn hammer control.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Fontanini! More rebound than any forged anvil (or any other type of anvil) I've ever worked on. For the record I've worked professionally on Hay Buddens (several), Fisher, Peddinghaus, Peter Wrights (several), Hill, and Mousehole. Played around on a dozen more types (including JHMs) at hammer ins and at friends shops. The JHMs were good but not great. Full disclosure I've never hammered on any of the Swedish brands or a Refflinghaus which are also considered top shelf brands. Fontanini are cast H-13 tool steel. Beats the pants off a "ductile iron" alloy. Do some careful forging on your family anvil, you probably won't hurt it in any way, and do a bunch more research. Some practical experience as well as some book learning (NOT all on the internet) and hopefully you will make well informed decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Judson Yaggy said: Fontanini! More rebound than any forged anvil (or any other type of anvil) I've ever worked on. For the record I've worked professionally on Hay Buddens (several), Fisher, Peddinghaus, Peter Wrights (several), Hill, and Mousehole. Played around on a dozen more types (including JHMs) at hammer ins and at friends shops. The JHMs were good but not great. Full disclosure I've never hammered on any of the Swedish brands or a Refflinghaus which are also considered top shelf brands. Fontanini are cast H-13 tool steel. Beats the pants off a "ductile iron" alloy. Do some careful forging on your family anvil, you probably won't hurt it in any way, and do a bunch more research. Some practical experience as well as some book learning (NOT all on the internet) and hopefully you will make well informed decisions. Judson, It might only be a hair or photo illusion but just to be sure.. That's not a crack is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 No, that's where the carbide burr in a die grinder jumped out of the hardy hole and walked across the face. The hole came sharper than I wanted and the face is too hard to cut with even a brand new quality file so I had to die grind a radius into the holes. Operator error, it got away from me for a moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Phew. What a relief.. I've seen a few anvil with hardie hole cracks but never on one with a double horn and hardie on the horn end... Very robust design.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abby Babby Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I see that new Anvil and I get a little teary, and one sniffle, makes me want to throw rocks at my anvil. Looks good and I know you will use it to superb results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 LOL shucks , Come on. All the kids have to have a chance to play... Sadly or nicely, it only takes some want, a few dollars or a credit card with ample credit to own a brand new spankin anvil.. Just got another 25% off at Zoro.. I am flush with anvil at the moment...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan William Perry Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Hey. How is ductile iron heatreated is it similar to say a simple carbon steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 NO! Ductile iron is generally made by adding magnesium to the liquid iron right at pouring. Now for Austempering ductile I suggest you read the wiki article on ductile iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan William Perry Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just so you didn't think I'm an idiot I wasn't asking if they composition was similar I was asking if heatreat and temper was similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 NO different materials == different process requirements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 while the differences in heat treatment used to be markedly different they have cast irons now that can be heat treated just like steels.. Heated to transformation temp and quenched.. The used to use chill bars to create a hard surface.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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