should I grind off the top 1/2 inch ?

[yt12]

Just kidding !!!!!!!--------Hope I dont catch too much grief if I post a 2 fold "it followed me home" with only 1 photo !!!!....Just want to confirm,ya gotta keep yer feelers out.# 1-----Lived here 8 years and have never had the need to use the neighbors drive----2 years ago,first ever had to do a turn around in their drive--as I pull in, I see a pile of trash by the house--water pipe,rusty shelving AND IS THAT A VISE ?!?!----I get out and see a Columbian 204 1/2 M2----pristine---never used !!!!---call the neighbor at work and hear "yes,cleaning out the basement---scappers are on the way in an hour -----Great neighbors---just had to confirm how big of a tool guy I am !!!!------part 2-----more clean up---I get a call this time !!!!! 150 lb Vanadium steel ---PRISTINE !!!!!!!--------I wont reveal a price---they just wanted the basement cleaned out.GREAT NEIGHBORS !!!!!

[Tubalcain2]

lovely find.

[Lionel h]

Lucky dog you really cleaned up , also helped them clean up !

[tanglediver]

Tisk, tisk. Next door neighbors, it's always the last place you look...

[yt12]

As a long time Trenton guy----dont know alot about the Vanadiums.I do know Sears carried them in the 30s/40s.I understand they are solid cast steel and fairly good quality.Any opinions ?!?! She really is a beauty--90 ish rebound---sweet ring with no dull spots and the face still has the factory finish marks !!!!!!.As a teaser--------I need to get the camera ready for 2 "it followed me home" stories   1) my Trentons ---150 lb/90 lb 2)   the mother of all scrap recoveries ---including 120 lbs of Blackbird Titanium.

[ThomasPowers]

Be careful of the Ti alloys you forge!   CP 1 & 2 are ok but some of the others can make you sick.

If the rebound is 90%  and the edges don't shatter under impact then it's a GREAT anvil no matter who made it!

[yt12]

TP---------Thank you for the information,I will definitely keep that in mind.If I may pose another question----I have a cut-off block which gives a 4in x 10in face when upright,apx 150 lb.The block is plant marked "C1"----I have used it for light work and the face is un-marked.I understand "C1" doesnt tell  much,and it may not be practical to get a full scope analysis for a complete breakdown---does C1 tell you enough about how it will hold out for some heavy duty sledge work ? Thanks in advance !!!!

[C-1ToolSteel]

Anything marked "C1" is gonna be the best that's out there. Just sayin'

 

[Michael Cochran]

Based on a very quick google search I'd say it would make a decent striking anvil as long as it's not hardened. It is a high carbon alloy so you'll have to worry about chips flying off if it isn't annealed properly. I can't say I'd use it if I had it just because I don't know the state it's in and I don't feel like putting myself or anyone nearby in danger if it did start throwing chips. 

[ThomasPowers]

C1 will you chip, crack of spall if we use you for an anvil?

[C-1ToolSteel]

Tubalcain2 has used me for an anvil a couple of times, and so far, I seem to be holdin up purdy good. (Just joking about Tubal. He's a great guy.)

[ThomasPowers]

Just don't nod your head around him!  (wasn't that a verse that didn't make it into el condor pasa---"I'd rather be a hammer than an anvil")

[SReynolds]

In all seriousness; do any of you regulars on this site know and understand that the common word on the street , that is to say YouTube , is exactly that? "Grind off the top to reface it"

You guys can get a little harsh  in your responses. Please understand, this is what  the public is spewing. Folks stumble in here and you be " Dont %@#!*^#:*$ that anvil " !!!! 

[Frosty]

49 minutes ago, SReynolds said:

In all seriousness; do any of you regulars on this site know and understand that the common word on the street , that is to say YouTube , is exactly that? "Grind off the top to reface it"

You guys can get a little harsh  in your responses. Please understand, this is what  the public is spewing. Folks stumble in here and you be " Dont %@#!*^#:*$ that anvil " !!!! 

It's true and didn't we just find out common usage trumps dusty old definitions every time? 

I'd better guy some grinding disks and restore my anvils. Thanks for pointing the reality out to me I'll keep my opinion to myself from now on. . . 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

2 hours ago, SReynolds said:

In all seriousness; do any of you regulars on this site know and understand that the common word on the street , that is to say YouTube , is exactly that? "Grind off the top to reface it"

You guys can get a little harsh  in your responses. Please understand, this is what  the public is spewing. Folks stumble in here and you be " Dont %@#!*^#:*$ that anvil " !!!! 

Should we not? 

[C-1ToolSteel]

I think SReynolds brings up a good point to consider.

People come on the forum being told by everyone that they should mill the face flat. Sometimes we do go a little overboard and make the guy look stupid when that is what he has always been told. There is NO REASON to stop telling people not to destroy their anvils, but I think it is an injustice to make them feel stupid. "Smart people" are constantly discovering things contradictory to what they taught with zeal the year before and we still call them smart people!

 

[Frosty]

You're right of course and I really try not to make anybody sound dumb, I just don't have much resistance to responding sharply to someone who asks a question then argues with the answers that don't mirror their preconceptions. I tend to get carried away, maybe growing a couple offspring of my own would've given me better coping skills. Oh well.

I recognize myself in a lot of these kids, I was a going to try no matter what you said kind of kid. I probably would've been in Dad's shop trying to put razor edges on the anvil and a needle point on the horn. Just because some OLD person said it wouldn't work doesn't mean it won't work for ME. I'd show em.

Even did on occasion. Some things never will though.

So, C-1 I agree, it's a good point and I'm open to suggestions. Any ideas on how to tell someone what they want to do to a tool is a B-A-D thing without making them feel stupid? Some good solid ideas, not some vague, "somebody should" blah blah blah.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[C-1ToolSteel]

Well, I'm not an expert on this subject (and may tend to go overboard sometimes as well) , but I try to keep it about like this.

I highly recommend that you DON'T GRING OR WELD YOUR ANVIL. Lots of people prefer a little bit of sway, and sharp edges are actually a bad thing. Most people that try to repair anvils just make them worse.

I don't think there is any reason to not use ALL CAPS when trying to get the point across, but it is the sarcasm and put downs that I believe are unnecessary.

Am I on the right track?

                   C-1

[ThomasPowers]

Smart people research *FIRST* before posting stuff that has been covered many many many times before.

I have a new student that I was helping forge a spring for his new to him post vise and I was using a chunk of steel for the anvil as it had a 3" hole drilled through it just hitting one side and so a great place to forge down the legs of the fork right after they were cut with a chisel---and to demonstrate that you don't need a London Pattern anvil to do what needed to be done.

[C-1ToolSteel]

I think the point of what SReynolds said is that they TRY to research first. They go on YouTube and see all these people grinding their anvils that *claim* to be experts.

I think we have all been mislead before by people that claimed to be experts. Does this mean we are all stupid?

[ThomasPowers]

I don't consider trawling youtube to constitute proper research; at least on these forums we do get peer reviewed!  I freely admit that I am an elitist; I do not consider everyone's opinions on a subject to have the same weight or validity and I don't feel that uninformed opinions need to be publically posted---you may note I don't post on building burners.  I don't have the background to do so! (I have been using propane forges for a couple of decades now; but am NOT a burner boffin!)

[JHCC]

I got my anvil back in the bad old days when "clean it up with an angle grinder" was pretty standard advice, and I confess that I did indeed do some work on the surface. However, I know (A) that I didn't take off very much (thank goodness, and certainly not enough to affect its lifetime significantly) and (B) that I know better now and would never recommend such a course of action to a newbie today. 

That said, this is one reason that I belong to IFI and do my best to contribute within the limited expertise of my own experience. Unlike the free-for-alls you find on most blacksmithing FB groups, there actually is a good balance struck between openness to new ideas and the collective wisdom of the group.

[C-1ToolSteel]

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't treat someone's ill informed ideas as a reflection of their general IQ. JHCC is a perfect example. I think he had so much grammar knowledge packed in his brain that it would have been hard to cram any more anvil knowledge in there. Likewise, we wouldn't want JHCC to say we were stupid if we thought a particular word meant something else because everyone told us so.

[ThomasPowers]

There are several subjects subject to dog piling on on this forum. (It's a Friday...)  One of them is safety, another is anvil abuse, (bad puns should count as well---especially on Fridays or JF's posts...).

Bad research is not necessarily an indicator of intelligence deficiencies; it could be show a lack of effort to do a proper job, AKA laziness. Lack of respect for others---eg: your time is less important than my time---so rewrite  what has been written so many times before for *me*. Lack of training in how to do research or how to evaluate sources---this is an important item in the current internet age---how do you sift the wheat from the chaff, especially when you are looking into an area you don't know much about!  We have discussed various ways here before: consensus, experience levels, etc.  Pretty much all of these are negative.  Many of them could be eliminated by thinking before posting.

What I deplore is people making up their mind BEFORE that have a sufficient knowledge base to work from.  They often come here not wanting to find out what (or if) they should do something; but seeking a how they should do something that is NOT a good idea to do!  Review how people are treated when they come seeking knowledge vs when they come seeking how they should do something that should not be done.  Unfortunately a lot of preconceptions and urban myths abound around blacksmithing and many people come here knowing what just isn't so.

I think if you review the entire site you will find that we deal fairly well with folks having language difficulties---often pointing out to others that there may be translation difficulties. We deal fairly well to folks having typing/grammar difficulties.  We may often make fun of a particularly good typo; but it's generally friendly fun. We try to take peoples ages into account if we know them. We are also generally willing to repost information many many many times; often for people seeking a specific piece of information; but unlikely to become regular members of this scrum...  We are kind of down on people who want to use this site to take advantage of other people, spammers; or want to get into flame wars.

However there a bit of hurly burly as ideas and suggestions get kicked around, I strongly suggest people do not ask for a critique of their items if they do not want a critique of their items. I very seldomly post a "me too" or "nice" and I try not to post a critique unless I can make a suggestion I think they could follow through on to improve things.

It's definitely a Friday!  Perhaps there should be a Philosophy forum...

 

[C-1ToolSteel]

If it sounded like I was angry at the forum or something, that isn't my intention at all. From the few forums I have seen, this one is hands down the best in my opinion.

I definitely agree that bad research is very often a sign of laziness. I definitely have seen posts that screamed "my time is more important than yours". I definitely have observed people make up their mind before gathering a sufficient quantity of information to make an informed decision. (How's that, Grammer Hammer?) 

I do think sometimes things seem obvious to us (like welding can easily be harmful to the anvil face) , when they see this shiny anvil with sharp corners and go hey I'm gonna try that. What could go wrong? It's METAL, right?? They want an anvil so they can learn smithing and learn some metallurgy on the way. What they don't know (and won't know from the majority of "experts") is that you need to ALREADY know metallurgy to know how to properly repair an anvil.

Anyway, I think there is room for different opinions on this subject. This is just my take.

                                           C-1