Michael Cochran

Hole punched in the wrong orientation

26 posts in this topic

This is one of those moments where I want to slap myself and ask myself, "What were you thinking? You idiot!" Last moth I forged a handled hammer eye punch like I've been wanting to do for a while (thank you Littleblacksmith for getting me in gear with your posts). I was disappointed right from the start because the taper was too long (easy fix, I have not fixed it yet because I was not that worried about it) and something else seemed a little off. I knew part of it was because I didn't have the big cheeks like the usual ones I see but something else wasn't right and I couldn't put my finger on it. Today I figured it out. I used a scrap of wood to make a handle and after getting it fitted the error was right there in front of me, laughing at me. Obviously I could use the punch as is but it presents an extra danger by making me have to spread my arms wide in use placing my head much closer to a swinging sledge. Seeing as how I still need my head I want this right so I can keep my head where it belongs for a little longer. All this rambling leads me to my questions. Is there a reliable way to fix what I have? I have a couple ideas namely twisting the tapered section or welding a plug into the eye and repunching. Or should I set this to the side as a reminder to pay attention to what I am doing?

IMG_0966.JPG

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Depends on how much added time you're willing to put into fixing the problem. Would you spend the same amount of time to make a new one?

I have a shelf I'm my smithy that has quite a few 'reminders' on it. A bull's head with one horn burnt off (reminder - keep the horns cool), a stuffed up punched hole in round bar (keep the punch centred), drawn out wrought bar that resembles a toothbrush (keep it hot or avoid wrought), an uneven twist (maintain an even heat) etc etc.

Sometimes it's better to set something aside as a reminder and make a good one.

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15 minutes ago, ausfire said:

Sometimes it's better to set something aside as a reminder and make a good one.

That's what I was expecting. Thank you, Ausfire. I was hoping I could 'fix' the problem but the truth is I see flaws with the two ideas I presented earlier as fixes. Looks like I'll make a new one, hopefully with a better taper etc than the first. 

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I'd do a rod wrapped handle and keep it as a spare of backup at least.

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That's an idea I didn't consider. Of course if I needed it I could always wrap it up then.

I thought briefly about doing a mig welded socket on the correct side for putting a handle in but I see draw backs to that idea too.

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Greetings Michael,

       Looks to me that you have enough stock on the high part to forge it round and twist to the correct orention.  Another trick that I have used is a thin shallow saw cut , twist to correct than weld the cut and reforge and grind. Ahh ... been there ... done that.. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

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There's nothing wrong with your punch, you've got the workpiece in the wrong orientation.....!

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I would make a forked handle that is high enough at the punch to allow me to put a piece of wood through the punch as well as through both tines but I have a good wood working shop so that is quicker than making a new punch.  

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I like the Jim Coke solution, thin saw cut, rotate, weld etc. Been there but didn't done that. Thanks for the tip Jim

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On 4/16/2017 at 7:44 PM, Jim Coke said:

Another trick that I have used is a thin shallow saw cut , twist to correct than weld the cut and reforge and grind.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you do mean arc weld the saw cut right? I would hate to assume that's what you meant even though I'd imagine forge welding it is a viable means of doing it as well. 

On 4/17/2017 at 1:04 AM, Smoggy said:

There's nothing wrong with your punch, you've got the workpiece in the wrong orientation.....!

I tend to find the workpiece in the wrong orientation regularly. :( 

4 hours ago, gote said:

I would make a forked handle that is high enough at the punch to allow me to put a piece of wood through the punch as well as through both tines but I have a good wood working shop so that is quicker than making a new punch.  

Gote, that's an interesting suggestion. Do you mean a sodden handle and pin or a steel handle with a wooden pin? I might try it both ways just to see how it looks to blend the iron and the steel like that. I would imagine using a steel handle with a good hardwood pin would be just about as tough as the regular handle if done right. 

Thank you for the suggestions, everyone. You guys have given me plenty of food for thought and maybe this weekend I'll get around to fixing it and seeing what fun I can have with it. 

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I'm with Smoggy - turn your stock(hammer blank or what ever your punching) 90º.

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Greetings Michael, 

         Yes arc or tig weld the grove. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

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Just now, jeremy k said:

I'm with Smoggy - turn your stock(hammer blank or what ever your punching) 90º.

The biggest problem with that would be I'd eithe have to hold my arms one on top of the other or spread my wings and hope I don't fly away. I thought about trying it as it but the thought of holding it either way seems to be awkward. I'll have to see if I can get my striker to help me out for a little bit this weekend while our son visits her sister. 

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2 hours ago, Jim Coke said:

Greetings Michael, 

         Yes arc or tig weld the grove. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

Sorry, I didn't see your post earlier. Thank you for clarifying. 

Is there any such thing as an inexpensive tig welder? I'm gonna have to look for one now. 

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23 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said:

Sorry, I didn't see your post earlier. Thank you for clarifying. 

Is there any such thing as an inexpensive tig welder? I'm gonna have to look for one now. 

Sure. Do you have a GMAW, wire feed with shielding gas, welder? If so put a 5mm. or close tungsten tip in the contact tip. Whatever tungsten tig tip and mig tip that fit together snugly, nothing special. I've ground the contact side to fit a worn mig tip. Strip the wire or open the drive rolls so wire doesn't feed. I HOPE I didn't really need to add that. 

Now you have a scratch start tig welder. No, it's not a "proper" tig welder you can't control the voltage on the fly and if you're welding non-ferrous you'll need to buy a bottle of argon. Works well enough in a pinch. :ph34r:

Hmmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

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3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Do you have a GMAW, wire feed with shielding gas, welder?

I have a Horrible Freight version. It's supposed to be capable of gas shielding but I don't have the accessories necessary to use gas. Truth is I haven't looked into getting gas for it yet but looks like bows a good time to be looking. Thanks for the tip.

I did do some brief looking and found a tig welder for about $100US but looks like it's beyond cheap. Maybe one day I'll stumble on one for a deal but if not it's not a big deal.

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6 hours ago, Michael Cochran said:

 

The biggest problem with that would be I'd eithe have to hold my arms one on top of the other or spread my wings and hope I don't fly away. I thought about trying it as it but the thought of holding it either way seems to be awkward. I'll have to see if I can get my striker to help me out for a little bit this weekend while our son visits her sister. 

You don't have to have the punch either in line or at 90deg, any position that is comfortable works, you simply have to ensure your work piece is orientated to suit.

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36 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

You don't have to have the punch either in line or at 90deg, any position that is comfortable works, you simply have to ensure your work piece is orientated to suit.

That's true, I just know I was trying to make something similar to what I've seen several times. I just let my mind wander at the wrong time and have this one out of the "norm" that I am accustomed to seeing.

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Micheal, worst case scenario is you take an hour and make another the way you want and keep the one above for a time when you need it.

 

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Just give it a twist, and be done with it. Keep it simple..

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I still like TP's solution.  Run a red hot rod through the eye, bend it back on both sides, and twist.  Presto!  Your new handle is 90 degrees from where a wooden handle would have been.  I don't see how it can get any easier than that.

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On 2017-04-19 at 6:16 PM, Michael Cochran said:

Gote, that's an interesting suggestion. Do you mean a sodden handle and pin or a steel handle with a wooden pin? I might try it both ways just to see how it looks to blend the iron and the steel like that. I would imagine using a steel handle with a good hardwood pin would be just about as tough as the regular handle if done right.

I would have made the "fork" and the pin from wood. In my situation that is the quickest way. You do not need to fix a punch the way you fix a hammer head. Many advocate the use of a very loose fit to decrease any kickback into the holder's hand. Traditionally we used handles from fresh hazel rods.

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Thank you for clearing that up for me, Gote.

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Forgot to say: My preference for wood is partly that my wood working shop is always ready to go and to stop whereas the blacksith shop needs starting and the fire and extinguishing it again. For a one-off, wood is faster.

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Of course you could just slit punch it through the cheeks, drift it out and call it good!  By the time you get the new slit and drift done the old handle hole will be pretty well closed up.  For this type tool the handle is just for positioning... that is you never swing it... just hold it in place and drive it with another hammer.  So the handle is normally NOT wedged tightly.  Thus the slightly wanky cheeks should present no problems.

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