What is the most dangerous tool in your shop?

[Glenn]

Everything in blacksmithing is either hot, heavy, sharp, or dangerous.

Each shop is different, and each set up is different. There is a common theme as to when to use extra caution around tools. Hand tools are a bit different from large mechanical tools, and each has its own level of danger.

Just to remind us, what is the most dangerous tool in your shop?

. 

[starbits]

Angle grinder.  We have a love/hate relationship.  I try to treat it nice, it tries to bite me.

[Wroughton]

1 - Myself most likely. 

2 - The chainsaw is probably second, but it doesn't start itself so back to number 1.

3 - The iron worker is next. Old mechanical can make fingers disappear real quick if the  guards aren't on. 

4 - Chemicals and paints all piled together in "paint locker".

5 - Guard removed off the pulley on the small ph. More worried about dog ears and tails. 

Safety meeting is now scheduled for 3/27/17

 

 

[Joel OF]

I think the most danerous tools are the ones with inherent danger that you can't do anything about, even with proper use, so you're therefore most likely to be injured by them, but they may not be the tool which is capable of doing most harm.

E.g, twisted wire wheels on angle grinders which throw out wires & you can't stop that. One in the eye could be a disaster.

VS

An oxygen bottle falling & the regulator being damaged causing possible severe injury, but that's not likely to happen because you chain them to the wall.

[Jackdawg]

hand held circular saws, or even worse, table saws.

[The Alchemist]

I am the most dangerous thing in my shop. 

[Tubalcain2]

i consider the most dangerous tools the ones you respect the least. often times these are the same tools you use most often. angle grinder is a big one, but shoot, just about anything that spins is dangerous.

[C-1ToolSteel]

For me, the most dangerous tools are the ones that look innocent but have a tendency to catch whatever I'm working on. This is mainly an issue with small things like blades. I still have occasional drill press/buffer accident.

[Frozenforge]

Complacency! Wire wheel and buffer.

[Frosty]

7 minutes ago, Frozenforge said:

Complacency! Wire wheel and buffer.

BINGO, 1,2&3. Any rotary tool is inherently dangerous and why wearing loose clothing in any school shop class had you banished to your desk or 86ed for repeats. 

The #1 and only real safety tool is your brain. Get a good handle on the physics of tools, failures and side effects. The plane of rotation being prime.

I can go on for pages but I'll relent for now. . . 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BeaverNZ]

Yes I agree with Frosty, I gave my self a major scare about two months ago. I was pressing a large bearing 120 I/D ish off a shaft of a slew motor of a 20 tonne digger it was very tight on the shaft. I had about 70 tonnes of force on the shaft and I thought I had the force going to the inner sleeve of the bearing but I hadnt looked properly and it was pressing on the outer race of the bearing and it exploded. Very big bang My wife heard it (house is only about 40 metres away) inside the house and bits of bearing shell and rollers went in all directions That people is how you end up in a Box in the ground Complacency and being in a hurry made me feel a bit sick. Propably the most dangerous thing in the workshop is stored energy whether moving or not things ready to fall, air/gas pressure flamables. The list could go on for ages Flesh is easily damaged fortunatly it wasnt the large pieces but I put them to give an idea of the size of the bearing but the smaller pieces were some of the bits. Im going to forge something out of these one day

[SLAG]

Denizens of I.F.I.,

Permit me to add my two cents.

The most dangerous tool is me being inattentive.

Should I notice same, it is grounds for an immediate coffee break or a well  deserved rest.

SLAG.

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

A bench grinder/buffer will wait until about the time you get a knife good and sharp then jerk it out of your hand,,,,,and then throw it at you.

Wayne

[TwistedCustoms]

Buffer wins it hands down. I've never had a scratch from on angle grinder but I always run them with the guard, don't get them into a bind etc. The buffer has some inherent risks that can't be completely mitigated. Polishing requires diligent attention and still results in steel being ripped out of your hands and slung into the wall, floor, ceiling. I've never had blade come towards me but I have had them bounce off the wall behind the buffer with enough force to make me flinch( and swear like a sailor!) Running the buffer is the only time I wear a leather apron in the shop. Also full face shield. My nicks and dings can usually be handled with bandaids but the buffer has the potential for a more serious injury.

[Marc1]

Lots of tools can be dangerous, but what is dangerous for me may not be for you. So basically danger lurks in the lack of skill or unfamiliarity with the tool. I am extremely careful with my Honda powered brick saw, but have no issues with circular saw or table saw. I don't have a power hammer but would think of it as a dangerous tool.

I heard many people saying that the 9" grinder is dangerous and should be banned. I use it regularly, know it's power and my limitations. Never had a problem. However I had a 5" grinder slam in my face because I was using it with one hand overhead in an awkward position. Fortunately I was wearing a full face shield as I do every time I use a grinder of any description, and the shock did not make me release the grip that was keeping me on top of a U beam 3 meters above ground.  No harm done besides my pride.  

 

25 minutes ago, TwistedCustoms said:

Buffer wins it hands down. I've never had a scratch from on angle grinder but I always run them with the guard, don't get them into a bind etc. The buffer has some inherent risks that can't be completely mitigated. Polishing requires diligent attention and still results in steel being ripped out of your hands and slung into the wall, floor, ceiling. I've never had blade come towards me but I have had them bounce off the wall behind the buffer with enough force to make me flinch( and swear like a sailor!) Running the buffer is the only time I wear a leather apron in the shop. Also full face shield. My nicks and dings can usually be handled with bandaids but the buffer has the potential for a more serious injury.

Can you build a fixed shield in front of the buffer?

[TwistedCustoms]

I have a love hate relationship with plexi-glass. In a shop where grinding takes place its a matter of time until plex becomes so scratched it becomes cloudy and impossible to see through clearly. I can't envision a way a shield would offer protection without interfering with the ability to manipulate the work piece around the buffing wheel. Also your hands and forearms would always have to be on the dangerous side of the shield. My face and neck are protected by the face shield and my apron offers some chest protection. If anyone has used a shield like you describe I'm open to ideas! I have never sustained an injury from buffing but the startle factor of having a blade snatched from my hands keeps me alert while buffing!

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith said:

A bench grinder/buffer will wait until about the time you get a knife good and sharp then jerk it out of your hand,,,,,and then throw it at you.

Wayne

We lost one of our members to a bench wheel a couple years ago. He was a snowbird and wintered in Utah. He was wire brushing a knife, said hi to a neighbor  walking by the open garage door. Some time later the neighbor was walking home, noticed the motor still running but without a load and stuck his head in.

The brush had grabbed the blade and punched into Gordon's chest, piercing his heart. He was probably dead before he hit the ground.

Stay OUT of the plane of rotation.

I just noticed Marc's question about a fixed shield in front of a buff. NO! People have ben trying to figure out how to put a shield on buffers and wire wheels for as long as they've been killing people and not ONE has failed to make the machine MORE DANGEROUS!

If Gordon's wheel and buff had been mounted off the edge of his bench without the spark catcher around the wheel the blade would've ended up spanging off the floor instead of taking a turn around the wheel and killing him.

Now imagine trying to reach around something and handling parts pressed against something spawned in Hades to EAT YOUR LUNCH.

Frosty The Lucky.

24 minutes ago, TwistedCustoms said:

I have a love hate relationship with plexi-glass. In a shop where grinding takes place its a matter of time until plex becomes so scratched it becomes cloudy and impossible to see through clearly. I can't envision a way a shield would offer protection without interfering with the ability to manipulate the work piece around the buffing wheel. Also your hands and forearms would always have to be on the dangerous side of the shield. My face and neck are protected by the face shield and my apron offers some chest protection. If anyone has used a shield like you describe I'm open to ideas! I have never sustained an injury from buffing but the startle factor of having a blade snatched from my hands keeps me alert while buffing!

Good grief, this'll teach me to read to the end of a thread before replying! Hit your local motorcycle shop, dirt bike shop, not Harley shop and buy, "Tear offs" They're clear plastic sheet visor covers with a paper backing. You wash & dry your visor, peal the paper and lay the "tear off" over it and repeat a few times. I've found 10 tear offs at once gets a little hazy so it's not an unlimited thing.

When your visor gets dirty and scratched up from wiping the dirt off with your glove, (that's dirt biker dirt ad gloves, we wouldn't do that in the shop. Too often dirt biking you don't have time to stop and rinse your visor off, it's get SOME vision or eat it."

So, what do you do when your visor gets dirty and scratched? You get ONE guess. You TEAR IT OFF and viola you have a fresh spanking clean and clear visor. For a while anyway.

Tear offs work a treat in the shop even if they're not always the "right" size. They're thin enough to take scissors to if it's a problem.

I don't know why Tear Offs aren't standard safety gear everywhere but . . . 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Marc1]

Yes, Frosty, I am not sure how a shield would make it more dangerous but I believe you, it's too obvious to be a novel idea.

I would think a narrow curved shield in the shape of 1/4 turn some 3 feet long protecting face chest and groin, mounted on a post in front of the buffer, very close to you but far enough from the wheel to keep freedom of movements, narrow enough to have both arms around it ... anyway ... I don't have a buffer and don't really need one.

if you want to go troppo, you can have it in a box with two rubber gloves to reach inside ... ?

43 minutes ago, Frosty said:

We lost one of our members to a bench wheel a couple years ago. He was a snowbird and wintered in Utah. He was wire brushing a knife, said hi to a neighbor  walking by the open garage door. Some time later the neighbor was walking home, noticed the motor still running but without a load and stuck his head in.

The brush had grabbed the blade and punched into Gordon's chest, piercing his heart. He was probably dead before he hit the ground.

Stay OUT of the plane of rotation.

I just noticed Marc's question about a fixed shield in front of a buff. NO! People have ben trying to figure out how to put a shield on buffers and wire wheels for as long as they've been killing people and not ONE has failed to make the machine MORE DANGEROUS!

If Gordon's wheel and buff had been mounted off the edge of his bench without the spark catcher around the wheel the blade would've ended up spanging off the floor instead of taking a turn around the wheel and killing him.

Now imagine trying to reach around something and handling parts pressed against something spawned in Hades to EAT YOUR LUNCH.

Frosty The Lucky.

Good grief, this'll teach me to read to the end of a thread before replying! Hit your local motorcycle shop, dirt bike shop, not Harley shop and buy, "Tear offs" They're clear plastic sheet visor covers with a paper backing. You wash & dry your visor, peal the paper and lay the "tear off" over it and repeat a few times. I've found 10 tear offs at once gets a little hazy so it's not an unlimited thing.

When your visor gets dirty and scratched up from wiping the dirt off with your glove, (that's dirt biker dirt ad gloves, we wouldn't do that in the shop. Too often dirt biking you don't have time to stop and rinse your visor off, it's get SOME vision or eat it."

So, what do you do when your visor gets dirty and scratched? You get ONE guess. You TEAR IT OFF and viola you have a fresh spanking clean and clear visor. For a while anyway.

Tear offs work a treat in the shop even if they're not always the "right" size. They're thin enough to take scissors to if it's a problem.

I don't know why Tear Offs aren't standard safety gear everywhere but . . . 

Frosty The Lucky.

I keep my face shield clear by cleaning it regularly and when dry wipe it with orange oil on a tissue, rub until it's dry, clears all the scratches ... well within reason. Works for the welding helmet also.

[Bearded Guy]

Angle grinder and wire wheel on the bench grinder for sure. I have much respect for the angle grinder after a couple issues with it. Once tried to cut off my foot, through my boot and cut almost down to bone, got a nice scar on the top of my left foot. Also several other times it tried to slit my wrist or cut off a hand. I've learned the hard way to take my time and pay attention to what im doing and be safe about it. 

I hate the wire wheel on a bench grinder, it always seems to grab whatever out of my hands and sometimes tries to throw it back at me. I only use it when absolutely needed. I usually clamp stuff in a vice and wire brush it with the drill or angle grinder. At lest i have a little more control over the angle grinder or drill if it grabs ahold of something.

Always be aware of what you are doing and the dangers involved with each task. Complacency is the most dangerous thing. That is reason for most of my mishaps. They are few and far between now. I have learned to be more aware of the task at hand and if im not up to it or a slip happens, put it on hold and walk away.  It can always wait. My safety and well being is alot more important than whatever i am working on.

[BeaverNZ]

Frosty

I like the tearoff idea Next timeIm at the bike shop I will have a look at them I have always used a rolloff google system on the bike Cheers Beaver

 

[C-1ToolSteel]

I second the hatred towards bench grinder wire wheels. 

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, Marc1 said:

Yes, Frosty, I am not sure how a shield would make it more dangerous but I believe you, it's too obvious to be a novel idea.

I would think a narrow curved shield in the shape of 1/4 turn some 3 feet long protecting face chest and groin, mounted on a post in front of the buffer, very close to you but far enough from the wheel to keep freedom of movements, narrow enough to have both arms around it ... anyway ... I don't have a buffer and don't really need one.

if you want to go troppo, you can have it in a box with two rubber gloves to reach inside ... ?

I keep my face shield clear by cleaning it regularly and when dry wipe it with orange oil on a tissue, rub until it's dry, clears all the scratches ... well within reason. Works for the welding helmet also.

About the shield you describe. Don't you have different stances depending on the work? for instance, how would you buff a star 60cm across? That's not considering a 3D piece. If you didn't have to move too fast body armor would be a better bet.

Your thought about a glove box touches on the danger that scares me much worse than getting hit by pieces thrown by a wheel. Rotary tools WANT to grab you and pull you into the grinder. Picture your hands in rubber gloves, your arms trapped by the box. Picture the buffer grabbing the REALLY GRABABLE rubber gloves and dragging you in.

I don't know about down under but here we have Fatalgrams, this is the OSHA version. http://www.documbase.com/OSHA-Fatalgrams.pdf

I haven't done more than a quick skim of the links but there used to be a long list of how people managed to get themselves killed by getting caught in rotary equipment, dragged in and severely: bent, folded, spindled and mutilated.

There was one on the wall of the heavy duty equipment shop of a mechanic who got a sleeve caught in a driveshaft under a truck. He was evidently trying to see what was vibrating without taking it apart so he had a helper drive the truck while he rode a creeper under it. His sleeve got caught and he was wound around the driveshaft and no it wasn't a semi, it was a 3/4 ton pickup truck. 

There was another of a guy who got caught on a winch cable dragged into the drum and wound up. That pic was mostly just a few body part scraps poking out between turns and leakage.

Fatalgram pictures aren't cleaned up at all, they're intended to scare you smarter. I'm almost willing to bet Fatalgrams were the inspiration for the Darwin Awards.

Frosty The Lucky.

[gote]

I agree, the most dangerous thing in the shop is myself. That is: If I do not use the thing between my ears. The next most dangerous thing is fatigue with hurry coming third (or perhaps the other way round).  A visible known danger is rarely causing accidents. It is the invisible and/or unknown and/or unexpected that is dangerous.

Wrong safety devices are really dangerous. I recall “safety officials” wanting sprinklers in an aluminium powder room. Water on burning aluminium powder is likely to lift the roof of the building but they insisted.

I do not own a buffer or wire wheel but I can believe that they are dangerous. In the blacksmith shop, I rate the lathe highest (when filing, normally not) for reasons mentioned by Frosty. The angle grinder is probably second. The bench grinder third. The oxy-acetylene set is obviously dangerous if not well looked after.

In the wood shop the table saw is #1, the planer #2 and the band saw #3. I always read that the table saw may throw the piece when rip cutting but I have ripped hundreds of feet without anything happening. (I still always stand out of the way)  

[Iron Poet]

Grinder and sander. I firmly believe that most people overlook the danger that particulates are able to do to your lungs. It doesn't matter if I'm doing metal or wood or even just forging, I make sure to wear proper PPE. I however run a fairly low tech shop, so the next closest would probably be an cut-off hardie, followed by my welding machine

[Glenn]

It is not a tool, but all moving parts come to a stop when visitors arrive.

They want to touch everything, and can distract you from everything you are doing. Distraction is spelled  D A N G E R .