Melw45 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I want to build a forge. I do have some parts to start with. The attached photo is of where I am starting. Some years ago I made the burner for a aluminum foundry. It is a Reil's EZ-Burner. Found here, http://ronreil.abana.org/ezburner.shtml It worked well for me then. My first thought was to use the DIY cast-able refractory that I used for the aluminum foundry. It was from a recipe from John Wasser. I found from reading here and elsewhere that the Perlite will brake down at forging temperature. So after making some measurements and looking for local suppliers I have decided to use, Inswool Ceramic Fiber Blanket, faced with rigidizer, and for the floor, split hard brick I would also like a gauge for the regulator but have not found one yet. So any pointers for that would help. Fell free to point out any problems. Thanks! Mel Edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Gauges aren't hard to find; try eBay. Your burner's cross pipe is positioned in the right place to make the MIG tip change; I would suggest you do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Melw45, check out this thread, which is the discussion from when I was thinking about turning exactly the same kind of helium tank into a gas forge. That might be helpful. I'm not a gas guy, but I've seen a lot of more experienced folk here discourage the use of hard firebrick for gas forge floors. Might want to do some more reading before you commit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Mikey What would changing to a MIG tip gain me over the tiny drilled hole I have been using? JHCC I have read the thread you linked to. Did you post any pics of you completed forge? Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Melw45 said: JHCC I have read the thread you linked to. Did you post any pics of you completed forge? Mel No, as I said in the final update, I decided for the time being to continue with my solid fuel forge and to turn the tank into a slack tub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Changing from a hole to a MIG contact tip forces the outgoing gas stream to become a column of gas for several inches before it turns into a typical expansion zone. That column is also running forward much faster than an expansion zone; inducing and accelerating airflow into the burner's mixing tube. This is why I dubbed the MIG tips and gas tubes "accelerators" in my book, rather than just gas jets. When considering flow past a hole in thin wall tubing, for practical purposes, you may considered it as a two dimensional opening; worse, it is a round opening. So it gives minimum exchange of the potential energy of pressure, with a maximum of turbulence; otherwise known as drag when a gas passes through it on its way into a low pressure area. Now take twenty or thirty of those holes and line them all up together. The acceleration of the gas passing through them will exchange twenty to thirty times as much potential energy into actual kinetic energy as it passes through those holes, while only suffereing the same drag from turbulance as a single hole, because they have, in effect, become a tube. The lion's share of drag is cancelled, in exchange for a nominal share of drag in the form of friction, which can be an important factor too, but is a whole other subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It's the difference between a garden hose and one with a nozzle on it. The smoother and faster the gas jet the better it induces combustion air and the lower pressure zone before the gas jet expands to the tube wall causes the air to literally SUCK the propane into it so they mix more thoroughly. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 More air is draged into the mixing tube, to mix more thoroughly with the gas, and form a flammable mixture that runs down the burner faster, to create more flame per second. All very good things to have happen in your burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 In light of the informative posts from Mikey98118 and Frosty I have put together this see photo. I followed the plans from Zoeller Forge. I have not put a flare on it as yet. I don't have one. May have to try making one. I was forced to use a 1 inch T as the 1 1/4 inch are not available at the hardware stores around here. I did not want to have to wait for mail order. Monday I will head to a suppler close to me that sells Inswool Ceramic Fiber Blanket by the foot. They also sell High fire refractory cement by the pint. I am thinking that a coating of the cement will help make the inswool hold up better. Any thoughts on the refractory cement coating? Thanks Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 I have made some progress over the last few days. I went to the local ceramic suppler and bought the inswool, rigidizer and split firebrick. No refractory cement out of stock. Now for the pics. Here you can see the forge body set on the legs I bent up. They will be bolted to the body. I don't have a welder here. I still need to come up with a work shelf of some type. I also built a anvil stand I will show in the appropriate sub forum. Thanks for looking. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 One of the nice things about threaded parts is how interchangeable they are. Larry himself stated on his site that his "Z" burners are hotter burning than his modified side-arm burners. So, if you can't even find his preferred part for this burner, you can substitute this fitting for that one; just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Made some progress on this today. Mounted the feet and burner holder. Firs I had to make the burner holder. Made it from a conduit coupler. Had to drill and tap it for the bolts. The burner hole was cut with a hole saw. The problem I had was of all the saws I had none were the correct size. Used the closest that was not too big and Dremeld the rest of the way. See the photos. Thanks for looking! Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 Dang getting the Inswool in there was kind of a pain. Waiting for the Rigidizer to dry. Tomorrow will be completing the burner. Thanks for looking. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Loads of burners in forges don't use a flare; yours may not require one either. As tor the straight down from top center position of the burner port, I don't use it, but some others do, and are quite happy with their results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) Well I ran the burnner yesterday. Was trying to get it adjusted and found out the hard way I had a small leak. Got the gas off and tried to stop the leak. In the process of that I raised a nice burr on the brass fitting. That cut a 1/2 inch slice in my thumb and left a brass splinter. After I patched up the thumb I did what I should have done in the first place went to the hardware store and got the propane safe tape. Oh and a new fitting to replace the damaged one. Today was a bunch of honey do's . I will get it back together tomarrow. And address the pulsing. Thanks for looking. Mel 7 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Loads of burners in forges don't use a flare; yours may not require one either. As tor the straight down from top center position of the burner port, I don't use it, but some others do, and are quite happy with their results. I am using a conduit coupler as a flare. With that on the 8 inch 3/4 inch pipe. Setup with that it was pulsing or kind of buzzing. If I turned up the gas pressure the flame would go out. Will get back to fussing with it tomorrow.t Mel Edited April 11, 2017 by Melw45 spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Try it sans flare (AKA flame nozzle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Try it sans flare (AKA flame nozzle). I will give it a try. Thanks Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The ratio is: (Tube length = 8 x ID.) 8 x 3/4" = 6". The longer you make the tube the more likely it will need a flare or step increases in dia to make up for friction. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Haven't seen anyone mention it here in this thread (maybe I missed it), but try to avoid using galvanized pipe for your burners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 25 minutes ago, John in Oly, WA said: Haven't seen anyone mention it here in this thread (maybe I missed it), but try to avoid using galvanized pipe for your burners. It's brought up every time someone asks about burner builds. Not in every post but most every thread. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just mentioned it because his burners look like galvanized pipe and didn't see anyone telling him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 22 minutes ago, John in Oly, WA said: Just mentioned it because his burners look like galvanized pipe and didn't see anyone telling him. Going back and looking again I see you might be right! ARGH how did we miss that one! Good catch John, thanks. MelW use plain pipe, NEVER galganized! Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I think I've seen it in another thread, but I don't want to put out misinformation - could he just soak his burner in vinegar and that will remove the galvanizing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Probably easier just to get new black iron parts for the T and the tube. It's not like those have been modified, so that he'd be losing the time and effort spent on those. I don't know if the plug would get hot enough to be an issue, but a vinegar soak should be fine for that, I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melw45 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Well this forge is to be used outdoors. So I did not give it much thought. I will give them a good soak in vinegar. I have not found the T reducer like this one in black pipe. Unfortunately at this time I don't have funds to start over. I do have a big bottle of vinegar. The weather here is moving into a storm so not much work on the forge today. Thanks for the feedback. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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