Jack-O-Lantern

Burner hold placement question

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Hey guys. So I ordered a venturi burner from Mathewson Metals via Ebay. I used blue monster thread tape for the threads that fit the hose. I read yellow tape is for gas but this stuff says it's for gas, and is gummier and thicker than the white plumbers tape. So it's good right?

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I'm attempting to build a forge body for it now. Its gonna be fire brick and refractory in an angle iron cube. The brick is thin, and rated 2400 fh. The refractory is the premade type. Not castable. It is for the interior, as I've read here is proper. It's rated 3000 fh. This is the body so far. It's taller than it is wide by about 1/4". I wanted it high for the flame to have space. Should I correct this before I put on refractory? The opening as of now (pre-refractory) is 6 3/4" high by 6 1/2 wide. I plan on  adding a half inch or more of refractory.20170311_170817.thumb.jpg.960299978ae678f1bece988131f3c005.jpg

I decided to put the burner up top for 2 reasons.

1. Angling the burner hold is a bit out of my league as far as fabrication goes.

2. Though the even heat of a swirl sounds good, I think a hot spot will be more useful personally since I'm not a knife maker.

So should the burner hold bottom be flush with inside, or outside of the forge "shell"?20170311_170339.thumb.jpg.ee768d081a7952596f35691db30e02d0.jpg

Is it 1 or 2? And should the torch head come out a bit?

All replies are appreciated.

Also, propanes kinda scary to me. Any tips welcome. I've never tried it but from what you guys say, it's a huge time saver. And $ saver for me in the burbs outside Chicago. We'll see.

I'm just sick of clinkers, soot, and smoke. The startup time of coal, and missing out on rainy days. 

I'll post updates after you wizards show me what to do, and I do it.

Thanks for looking.

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(1) I have never heard of gas rated blue tape. On the other, if it states is for gas, that is probably good enough.

(2) You need to use refractory mortar to "glue" those two top bricks together.

(3) You need to use a short pipe nipple in a floor flange to hold your burner

(4) You badly need to listen closely to all the guys who bother to build this kind of forge, and pay close heed to whatever they say, because most of the people who know their xxx from a horizontal hairy hole take one look at your present choices, and just feel tired. Don't get discourage by this; I lead that parade, and I'm advising you to just keep going. Their are many good things about this kind of forge; number one is that everything about it can be changed out as you gain experience.

(5) The easiest burner there is to make is a Frosty "T" and the best use of one is just this very kind of forge.

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Good grief Jack haven't you read ANY of the gas forge section? Please do some reading  before you spend more money and time on what you have pictured. 

Just in case you don't I'll answer your question about burner placement. NO do NOT extend the burner nozzle into the forge, it'll just burn off. I recommend using gas rated dope NOT tape. Using thread tape properly is an acquired skill, not a by guess and by gosh slap it on product.

That's as far as I want to go regarding your forge. I just replied to someone complaining about how us old curmudgeons respond. We're not nice enough I guess. I'm not being mean I'm not picking on you but that's a none starter of a forge. There's more fundamentally wrong with it than right. It'll be more work and money to make into a good forge than just starting over.

Please don't take it like I'm dissing you, I want you to have good equipment but you need to do some reading BEFORE you start building. Just asking isn't how it works.

Frosty The Lucky.

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On 3/12/2017 at 4:00 AM, Frosty said:

Good grief Jack haven't you read ANY of the gas forge section? Please do some reading  before you spend more money and time on what you have pictured. 

Noooo!!! I've been frost bit! It's not done yet Frosty! 

Being mean is fine. I just wanna know what to do. The tape is rated for gas. I haven't committed to the shape yet, that why the bricks not sealed with refractory yet. Thanks for tip about burner placement. I've read through 17 gas forge threads and none mentioned burner placement. I DID however find you mention the "peanut butter" consistency of certain types of refractory. The tops not cubed yet because of my burner query.

All I got is steel, firebrick, and refractory. I've seen others use the same materials successfully. I'm trying to work with what I got.

If I could I'd have a steel shell, insulation, refractory, a hard pizza oven type tile for the work piece, and even ITC 100. I've read all about that stuff here, but alas, I don't have access.

On 3/12/2017 at 1:40 AM, Mikey98118 said:

(3) You need to use a short pipe nipple in a floor flange to hold your burner

(4) You badly need to listen closely to all the guys who bother to build this kind of forge, and pay close heed to whatever they say, 

Floor flange it is. Thanks. I ordered the burner because making one is way over my head. 

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It may be an optical illusion, but on your burner, the angle of the brass elbow to the burner tube disturbs me. It should be inline - in other words, the hose fitting 90 degrees to the burner pipe.

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Well, Frosty is right, but so are you. Finish what you've started and at least learn something. As to building a burner; it may be way over your head today, and right down your alley tomorrow.

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 Mikey98118, Frosty

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Better? I made the top removable for when the interior needs fixing. I'll be happy if it lasts till autumn. I don't forge as often as I'd like. Weekend warrior... Anyway, It's got a half inch of refractory on the brick. First gas forge. Hopefully when it crumbles I'll have kaowool for it. I'll post it in action when I get a chance. 

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John has a good eye, I missed the apparent angle of the gas supply on the burner. To function properly the jet MUST be aimed straight down the center of the burner tube. I'm unfamiliar with that burner so I don't know if the jet angle is adjustable. Sight up the burner from the outlet end and adjust till the jet is dead center and you can't see it's sides. 

The floor flange looks MUCH better. Set the outlet end of the burner JUST inside the brick. You may have to close up the space around it and the mount pipe if it's drawing so much outside air it throws the forge atmosphere off. Some air is okay as it helps keep the burner cool but you don't want it leaning the forge atmosphere out and causing your work to scale up.

If the T burner is outside your shop skills I'm going to have to see if I can come up with something easier that works. Is there a college local you can take an extension course shop class? There is NO better way to gain access to tools, equipment and expert help for reasonable $. 

Mike is right, don't change horses in the middle of the stream. Go with you have now and build better later. In all honesty you could buy everything you need to build a burner and forge for what that . . . okay burner cost. However, I understand not having the tools and experience to use them being a road block. I live looking at the wrong side of such roadblocks every day. Since the accident I have to pay a guy to change a LIGHT SWITCH!

Frosty The Lucky.

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Biggest problem I see is that you appear to have used both hard firebrick and refractory for your forge lining.  There are two different products that are both often (improperly I believe) called fire brick.  One is relatively heavy, used for lining chimneys and kiln interiors and is usually called hard fire brick.  This material is also a type of refractory, just brick shaped.  The other is an insulating brick, light, friable and easy to cut with just about anything.  If you have used hard brick, you have no insulation and your forge will be inefficient,  a big heat sink and probably won't get very hot, unless your burner is greatly oversized.

Of course if that is actually soft, insulating brick then you can ignore the previous.

 

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They said it's a "venturi" type. You guys are right, it moves. It has only 2 holds. Not 3 like the burner holds. The holds grab the parallel sides of a hex bolt nozzle. It's easy the straighten but also easy to fall off center. It swings kinda. Should I tap in 2 more holds? 

Also, should I be wary of possible zinc on those bolts holding the flange? Vapors and such.

Thanks guys

 

Luckily they're soft brick! 

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Okay, you are still on track; there is no such thing as the wrong track; just better tracks taken by and by. Please keep reading while you're working. Burners 101 has a lot of information on use of tooling; not just the whys and hows of burner design. The best all around tool you can get used to is a rotary tool; both these tools and their accessories cost very little money these days, but they take time to get familiar with. You don't need to jump into heavy duty learning to get where you need to go; a fact a day will keep ignorance at bay. Slow and easy gives time for what you learn to settle into shape in your brain, and allow everything to make sense.

I think the metal plate on the top of your bricks will work out best, but you might consider cement board for the side panels. AsFrosty and I have discussed elsewhere, brick pile forges are endlessly changeable; if this doesn't make them the best kind of forge for a beginner to work with, it certainly makes them a contender.

 

Don't hesitate to add more set screws, to get proper control of the burner. Also, I advise replacing every set screw on the burner with stainless steel, before they rust.

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Top dead center has some issues - my first three forges used that burner placement.  You'll need to stuff excess wool in the burner tube to prevent the tube from being a chimney and feeding exhaust gas into the burner intake - when that happens, your burner will sputter and flame out.  If you're using it outside, you'll have a similar problem when the wind blows the exhaust coming out the front back into the burner intake.

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All good points to bring up, but I think he is prepared to put up with less than stellar performance, while he gets on with learning how to build more advance burners and forges.

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And you know this how?

Frosty The Lucky.

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