alex L Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 hello. so im new to this form but ive read alot of the postings and ussally good stuff. but ive been unable to find some answers bout crucibles. im planing to make some for melting iron to make steel. as far as my back ground ive been a smith for ten years self trained. ive been smelting lead aluminum bronze for bout 3 years. and ive maid sevral ok bloomerys. but im left with sum eh iron from the last run that id like to make into steel. i got a good formula that ive test ran al a local foundry. but since i dont wana lift crucible out to pour. far to dangares in my eyes. and this is where input would be great. if i leave crucible in furnece to cool will it stick to the crucible walls and if it peobly will then got no problem maken one time use crucibles, but dk what to make them out of.. plz help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Was smelt a typo? (You can smelt copper, you can smelt tin; but you can't smelt bronze! Aluminum is usually smelted using electrolytic means; is that how you are doing it?) Bloomeries are for smelting iron from ore. Yes generally leaving the melt in a crucible will result in the loss of the crucible due to sticking or cracking. What were you going to use for flux? As molten steel is a large leap more dangerous than melting low temp metals like AL, or intermediate metals like copper, I'm afraid I can't address this on a DIY basis. Almost all folks I know melting steel use commercially available crucibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Welcome aboard Alex, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. Judging by your post I recommend you take a casting course I don't think you know enough to safely do any high temp casting. Bronze is a lot more dangerous than I believe you're equipped to deal with safely. Making steel is NOT a home shop project and in fact happens a process or two AFTER ore is "Smelted" into useful iron. We're not jumping on your terminology just to be mean. Jargon is important and you're way off the rails here. A trade jargon is important so folk can convey critical information accurately without having to explain every darned word we say. Melted metals are just plain TO DARNED DANGEROUS to encourage folk to play with unless they know exactly what they're doing. Please take some classes and join a casting club, we want to see really cool sculptures you've made, NOT read your obituary or hear stories about some guy living where ever you live who suffered debilitating 4th degree burns when a HOME MADE! crucible failed and the steam explosion coated him liberally with molten most anything. Molten lead is good for 3rd. degree and Al will put 4th degree burns on you. Please don't take foolish risks. Get some professional training. It's cheap compared to just one trip to the emergency room, just a 15 minute ambulance ride costs a few thousand $. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex L Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 well as far as terms and prosses. i melt alum with propain or charcoal. i melt bronze with propain and out of 4 hundred casts ive only had one injury. from alum i poured to fast. my day job has been a welder since graduated collage in 10. ive been injurd more times by welding then smiting and melting together. and have had massive burn to my legs from scraping for a family friend short story never trust people bout what was in a drum oil doesn't like to go out on its own. as safety goes im not dum i use all appropriate gear when doing melts. and as steel melting goes. the crucible will be held in a 1/4 wall furnace and 1/8 sealed steel floor should a fail happen 100 percent contained! so i take it theres no good crucible resipies for one shoters then? as far as the dangers white hot steel will do the same damage as molten steel. but by not pouring the molten steel this risk is negated. as far as making steel. in days of reading and research. its just about geting the iron and carbon in the right numbers. bloom iron tends to be way to low for what i need. as far as flux bloken glass to protect the metal but im not sure the is the best agent. incorrect to state white is same danger level as molten. please read more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Alex, many of us live in the USA where liability laws are rather open and can be interpreted rather loosely. With this back ground you came onto this site asking about dangerous processes and so asking us to bet all we own or ever will own on how careful you are. What we see is that you don't take care in spelling, punctuation, capitalization. This makes a lot of us gun shy. Now a bunch of us are better with a hammer than a keyboard; but we use built in spelling and grammar checks. (On a good day I'll type with 3 or even more fingers! My vocabulary outstrips my spelling by orders of magnitude). Others don't make use of such things; but offer good information and do not ask us to make the bet mentioned above... I'm hesitating to recommend a visit to a friend who does a lot of what you are wanting to do over this; not knowing what country you are in makes it rather moot anyway. So I will throw a more public figure to the wolves: Have you talked with Al Pendray about what you are wanting to do? I will also mention that Dr Feuerbach's PhD thesis on Crucible steel in Central Asia contains a lot of information on the make up of the crucibles they were using---but also mention that getting working refractories was a major problem for Huntsman when he was starting the crucible steel industry in the UK. ("Steelmaking before Bessemer, Vol 2 Crucible Steel") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex L Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 so basically no one will say anything for fear for liability... wow. well trial and error then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Good Morning, Alex I believe this is called "I Forge Iron", not 'I Pour Iron'. There are some of the most different, cross section of knowledgeable people, in one place, that I am aware of. People that start out demanding "How to melt and Pour Steel" obviously have not spent any time trying to figure out what knowledge base of people are available here. Slow down, do some research, try to figure out the function called, Forging, first. There are business' on the Internet who specialize in the components for Casting. Contact them for a professional answer. Stay safe in your Journey!! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 So have you talked with Ric over at Door County Forgeworks? He's in Wisconsin too and offering a class: July 17-21 Wootz Crucible Steel with optional weekend 22/23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Alex: You've poured bronze 400 times and you're asking US? You graduated college 7 years ago and evidently one that doesn't include even basic English as a requirement or you're just to sloppy to bother. Are you ASKING us to get our Curmudgeon on? Obviously you feel your time is much more valuable than ours or you'd've done some BASIC research. Making all grades of iron and steel with a bloomery or crucible processes has been covered many times IF YOU LOOK. Heck, it was covered pretty darned well on Nat Geo on PBS, more than once. If you wish to impress us then do it with DEEDS not qualified claims of said. No, none of us want to assume liability for someone who can't bother with such minor details as basic written language or research. YOU even claim to have learned not to trust others and the hard way but want us to? You MUST BE KIDDING. What you demonstrate is slop. Nice try Alex. You've offered ZERO convincing arguments to make me want to put myself on the line nor change my advice. Take some classes, do your own research and risk your own hide. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Plus, this discussion really belongs in the Foundry and Casting section, not historical blades. Its now moved, he wasn't paying any more attention to what he posted as he did where it was posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 He wants to use a historical process to make materials for a blade in a historical way. He's not going to cast it but create a puck to be forged out into a blade. I think that counts. At least when that was done at Quad-State it was considered part of the Knifesmithing Demo. He stepped up to the plate and at least provided some location info and so I've directed him to a couple of people who may be able to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 27 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: He wants to use a historical process to make materials for a blade in a historical way. He's not going to cast it but create a puck to be forged out into a blade. I didn't see anything in any of his three posts about wanting to make a blade, but I could have misread. 29 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: He stepped up to the plate and at least provided some location info and so I've directed him to a couple of people who may be able to help him. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex L Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 haven't commented bout the blades i plan to make but yes thomas is correct!! i have no need or want to do cast steel daily. i do howevor wana make steel from the blooms ive maid. and my final project is a shimara killed the spelling but a Persian curved sword, then a viking long sword and maybe a long sword. ive seen it done many times but never asked the right questions. as far as people trolling get over your selfs, just was hoping to use the knowledge of others to avoid sum pit falls. and i will look into the woots steel sounds like the kinda person i need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Alex, what other blades have you made already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 You may be familiar with Ric from NOVA's "Secrets of the Viking Sword" show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: You may be familiar with Ric from NOVA's "Secrets of the Viking Sword" show... An awesome show. If you haven't seen it, it's online HERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex L Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 that said does any one know how to get the widening near the tip or why its there? fairly long slender blade then it wides at ruffly the 1/4th end back down to the tip. to me it looks like metal is forge welded there. thoughts or places i can find it? and dont say google it ive tryed and found little into. i have watched that documentary and loved it. only blades other than bronze ive maid have been simple mild steel what may pass as long swords. and pole blades, spears. and that doesent include knifes ive maid. most of my iron work is decorative. currently been working on forge welding, got a spring steel billet ready for finishen a file knife to be finished and a billet of a 36 to get drown out as my practice before i make the real blades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, alex L said: i have watched that documentary and loved it. only blades other than bronze ive maid have been simple mild steel what may pass as long swords. and pole blades, spears. and that doesent include knifes ive maid. most of my iron work is decorative. Pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex L Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 sure give me sum time an ill clean the rust off of the ones got laying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We tried nicely to warn you and others about the stupidity of this but you want to play games. NO MORE you were warned in the ToS now its time out for you. This thread is closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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