Probably a stupid question about rivets

[newbiesmith]

Hot or cold? How do you set them in a pair of tongs?

I've heard that you heat the rivet, drop it in the hole and give the tail end of it a couple whacks.

I've also heard that you can just drop it in the hole and whack it cold?

-Dan

[Jmercier]

It all depends on the rivet. If it's a small rivet and it's anealed, I'll do them cold, if it's a large rivet, I do it hot. You dont need to upset the end of the rivet that much for it to hold two pieces together. The key when doing it hot however is to just have the end hot, not the whole shaft of the rivet, otherwise you end up upsetting the rivet inside the hole on your tongs and they wont open and close because it's now too tight, and your tongs shouldnt be so tight that they dont open on their own when you let go of the reins.

[newbiesmith]

J,

You just hit the proverbial "rivet on the head" so to speak. That's why I posted. Lets just say the first POZ tong kit I got from Blacksmith Supply is basically useless. I think I ended up welding the rivet to the tong blanks.

Yeah I suck. Who else could screw up a prefab tong kit?

-Dan

[hammerkid]

well it takes practice;)

[Mills]

Newbie all may not be lost. There are some variables here that may help you salvage what you have. In fact you may be 1 step short of finishing.

Rivet can be hot or cold, one head at a time or both, depending on tools and skills. The easiest most straight forward is cold with a store bought rivet. Put it in support the formed head in a bolster and tap away on the other side till set. Rivet set can be a very nice addition to your tool box to help the heads look good.

After riveting I almost always experience some upsetting in the hole. Tong jaws won't move. Heat the rivet/boss area up to a nice orange heat and work slowly and as you feel the joint starting to loosen. Be sure it is the joint and your not just bending hot steel. If needed I will use a water can to isolate the area I need. A few seconds of heat should be all that is needed. Continue to work the jaws as they cool. I sometimes will quickly dunk the tongs in and out of the slacktub to speed things up but I also don't think it is a good practice. Use at your discretion.

Once cooled enough that they are stable, set aside and let cool off completely or risk grabbing something hot.

The above is also the way to fit and adjust your tongs as needed for your work, EXCEPT you get the jaws hot and cool the boss/rivet then fit to the work. Try to get enough tongs that it is unnecessary in day to day operation.

About everybody here has screwed up something simple. Don't sweat the small stuff. If the above doesn't help you then some more details will help us walk you through it.
some BPs for riveting
BP0015 Tong Rivets

[John B]

When making tongs I always put the rivet in hot, beat the end down into a head, and then work the handles to free it slightly, then quench in the slack tub whilst still working the handles,

I would do the same when setting tongs to any new sizes.

Once cooled, the reins should move freely

[stretch]

It depends on what you want the rivet to do on how hard you hit and what size of hammer you use. Most old tongs have different size holes so rivets don't fit to well so a big hammer is needed with hot rivet to fill the hole in the tongs and with enough force to make a head too. If you just want a head and not upset the whole shaft of the rivet then a small hammer works best. The smaller the blow the more you mushroom just the end of the rivet and build a better head.
After filling the hole in the tongs and making the head, then with the joint in the tongs red hot then work the joint without bending the handles, work the joint until easy then dump in the slack tub, keep working the handles and dip in and out of the slack tub until cool. Sometimes if they are newer tongs out of the new hot rolled then don't cool them to quick. Cooling them quicker will harden them to make them a bit stronger just don't cool them to fast. Making a joint this way will make a nice smooth joint and nice and tight. If you use a long enough rivet you can use them until they get loose and tighten them a number of times until you run out of rivet, usually takes a few years with lots of use to run out of rivet.

[Frosty]

The big secret is working the tong handles after you're peined the rivet to loosen the hinge.

The other secret is using a chisel to put a small keyway in the hole on the side that gets peined. This keeps the rivet from turning in both halves of the tongs and keeps everything nice and snug longer.

Frosty

[ksb]

I head one end of the rivit hot - put into tongs - heat just other end sticking up with torch then form that head - works for me.
K

[JerryCarroll]

I bought several tongs at a flea market--most have nut/bolt for the pivet and work well. Not traditional I guess but very functional.

[Blacksmith Jim]

...

The other secret is using a chisel to put a small keyway in the hole on the side that gets peined. This keeps the rivet from turning in both halves of the tongs and keeps everything nice and snug longer.

Frosty

Thanks for that Frosty. Nice tip! I'll be sure to use that one in the future. It makes a lot of sense.

To the original poster, I use a hot rivet for tongs, and the round end of a small ball pien hammer to upset it. Like AM said, light taps, etc..

[fritzdecat]

Anyone have a good supply for rivits in the US?

[Mills]

I have bought from Hansen and have looked at Jaycee you can find what you need but I was some set back at the prices. When I figured my time and needs I won't be stocking store boughts. I only need a few at a time so I have made the tooling and will spend the money for stuff I can't make.

[Travis Covington]

Pieh Tool Co. sells a kit with a bunch of sizes. It's sounds a little pricy but for the amount you get it's not bad. They also sell small quantitys too.
Travis

[Blacksmith Jim]

Anyone have a good supply for rivits in the US?

Around here there is an "Industrial Fastener" store. It sells all sorts of rivets, among other things.. You might try some local searches for that.

[metalmangeler]

Hey R.C.
If you put the key way in your tongs as you are making them use a very blunt chisel or narrow fuller with the tong hot, then redrift the hole. Also line your notches up with the handle and jaw of the tongs so you don't create a weak spot.

[Ten Hammers]

and if you are without rivets. get the hole size and use a piece of same sized stock little longer on both sides. Get a piece of 1/4 bar and drill a hole ( say 1/2" ). Insert the rod in the tong holes and let it stick through the hole in the 1/4 bar, bar setting on the anvil ( everything cold ). you should have a quarter or so sticking out on top ( mebbe a pinch more ). Smack the top part of the rivet stock a good one ( nice and square ) with a good sized hammer. Should end up about even upset on both sides. Then work the heads down with a nice small ball pien. Get done and hopefully it's too tight. Stick it in the fire and it'll loosen. Continue to work the heads of the rivet if you wish but if you work too much you may loosen the rivet. If all goes bad you will have to chisel the heads off and start over but you will learn. Just upset cold over the monkey tool, pien cold till the heads look nice ( not real hard blows ). If it gets tight, stick it in the fire ( not always necessary ) and work the jaws till it frees up.

#5 rivets on finished goods stock ( for whatever needs ) are really nice when hit with torch and then smacked nicely with a small ballpien ( or small crosspien riveters hammer ).

[Frosty]

The rule of thumb for how much to have sticking out to make the head is 1 1/2 the diameter. For instance a 1/4" rivet needs 3/8" sticking out for the head.

Frosty