Where did everyone go?

[ThomasPowers]

Probably has nothing to do with TBI---I think I'll get a NIMBA.....

[stockmaker]

8 hours ago, SLAG said:

Anach.,

I much prefer haruspication to chicken bones. It worked for the Romans, (I think), and it sometimes works for me.

Thank you for posting information on this most vexatious problem.

Regards,

SLAG.

 

Slag try going to the page TAB located on the upper left and right click and select RELOAD TAB  It has been working for me. 

[arkie]

Slag, Anachronist58...and Glenn,

I use both IE and Chrome on my PC.  I have never encountered the need to hit the "refresh" or reload icon on the PC; the pages "turn over" with no problem.

However....when trying to turn pages on my Android tablet (Google tablet) and old Samsung Android tablet I to have to use the "refresh" icon.

[SLAG]

Stockmaker and Arkie,

Thank you for the heads up and suggested remediation steps.

It IS very much appreciated.

You fellows ROCK!

SLAG.

[AnBello]

I have some experience trying to find information on crafts from the Internet, on sites and forums. My other half is VERY keen on learning a new handcraft whenever she hears about it, and even worse, she follows through with her passion! So far she has at least 4 or 5 different craft hobbies (with a long list of things to come, I fear), and she is really serious about all of them (I can barely find the time for 1...)

And in my adventures helping to gather the required information, I have found that this site is on the top of the food chain, when it comes to the quality (and quantity) of the information available. (My worst experience so far was looking for quality information about glovemaking. If you happen to have any PDFs on the topic, more than grateful).

Of course, Blacksmithing in particular is a lot more extensive than many of those combined, and it is also far more dangerous to do something very wrong here than in most other crafts, so information quality becomes all the more important.

And I can say that I am able to learn this hard, big, extensive, complicated and even dangerous craft thanks to this site. If it wasn't for this, I would have just ended up severely limited as a stock removal knife maker (that's what I was planning when I got here). Or would have poisoned myself with some fumes by following YouTube videos, maybe (The first thing I learned here was 'NO (zinc) COATINGS GO IN THE FIRE'). And I'm sure there are LOTS of other people who wouldn't have had a real chance to get into this if it were not for this site, just like me.

 

Also, there is one thing that I find irreplaceable of this site:

When something is wrong, people will say that is wrong, and they won't just lower their heads and keep quiet to 'avoid hurting someones feelings'. I don't mean in any way trying to offend anyone by insulting with no purpose. I mean correcting someone by telling them what will not work, and what will even be dangerous.

I have been in forums where participants will repeat a phrase, almost like a ritual chant, and nobody daring to go against that (partially incorrect, in the best case) statement for fear of... social backlash? When egos and personas are more important than the information presented, the reliability of any given source becomes questionable...

 

As a final note, a big thanks to Glenn, and to all the regulars, experts and even masters in their own topic that have given us all this precious information, and all in one place at arms reach. Whenever you suggest packing a lunch and a cold beverage, I can only think that every single post I read gives me a bit (or a lot) of valuable knowledge. Comparing this forum to most of the rest feels like comparing a Library to a magazine/newspaper stand.

 

Sorry for the long winded post, I tend to be like that, trying to over explain myself...

[ausfire]

Long winded perhaps, Andres Bello, but commendable comments very well put.

And how good is it that this site has contributors from all over the world. Argentina, Alaska, America, Australia, Africa ... and they are just a few of the A's alone! Truly an international forum, bonded by one common interest.

[ThomasPowers]

Re glovemaking:  I'd post a question over at armourarchive.org under historical research or off topic posts as I'm sure somebody in the SCA is making their own gloves...

[JHCC]

Also re: glovemaking, I have a friend who grew up in Gloversville, NY, which was for quite a long time the center of the glovemaking industry in the United States. Interestingly, your social status in the town depended largely on what kind of job you did: people who made cheap canvas-and-leather gloves for laborers were towards the bottom (although above the people who merely handled raw materials), people who made mid-price gloves for the bourgeoisie were in the middle, and at the very top of the heap were the people who specialized in the eccentric little zig-zag seam at the base of the thumb in ladies' kid gloves.

[Emower]

I'm going to chime in here. I hesitate, but here goes. I tried to participate, but left with a bad taste in my mouth because of the curmudgeon effect. While I do not agree with that guy who said the site was awful to navigate, I do sympathize with his characterization of vets jumping down his throat. That happens often on this site, in my extremely limited experience. To be fair, it happens all the time over the Internet in general. It is difficult to communicate tone with computers unless you are willing to use all kinds of silly emoticons.  

Now I realize that you guys answer all the same questions over again, and we new guys seem to want information before looking for it, and we seem to ignore the stickies. I get it. What's the value of this anvil? Where can I find an 200 lb anvil for less than 50 bucks? My forge weld isn't taking, what am I doing wrong? There seems to be a simple solution to me; if it's a dumb question, don't answer it. The lack of answers will drive the questioner to do some research or leave. If you do want to answer, please be civil and hold the sarcasm. It's up to you what you want to spend your time on, if you decide to spend it on a dumb question don't take it out on the poster. 

I would like to add that the site really is irreplaceable. The amount of knowledge here is definitely something that would be missed if lost. Thanks to those who made it, keep it up, and keep it running. There will always be complaints, and maybe those with thin skin just don't fit in well here. But regardless it is an extremely valuable resource. I just built my second, much better and efficient forge based on knowledge acquired here. Here's lookin at you frosty. 

[arkie]

First, I love IFI...great forum!  Said that many times. 

As for the curmudgeons here, and any forum for that matter, they are kinda like... blisters.  At first, they hurt, cause misery and make you wish you hadn't "done that".  But like a good blister, it eventually turns into a great callous that deters pain, misery and makes it easy to "do that".   The curmudgeons will turn your blisters into callouses making your blacksmithing experience more enjoyable.

[AnBello]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:08 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Re glovemaking:  I'd post a question over at armourarchive.org under historical research or off topic posts as I'm sure somebody in the SCA is making their own gloves...

Thank you for the tip! I will certainly heed your advice!

[Emower]

14 hours ago, arkie said:

First, I love IFI...great forum!  Said that many times. 

As for the curmudgeons here, and any forum for that matter, they are kinda like... blisters.  At first, they hurt, cause misery and make you wish you hadn't "done that".  But like a good blister, it eventually turns into a great callous that deters pain, misery and makes it easy to "do that".   The curmudgeons will turn your blisters into callouses making your blacksmithing experience more enjoyable.

Alternatively the blister is so bad that it makes one think "whoa, I need to find a different way of doing this so that I don't have to deal with such a huge blister." 

[arkie]

I don't mind the curmudgeons, they all probably have a soft underbelly.  It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

[ThomasPowers]

Question:  if you give a class; does everyone have to pass?  Should everyone get an A?  Should people who do their homework and do it well get praised and folks who don't  not get praised?

We've had people here who tell us that we are killing the future of the craft if we are not willing to spoon feed them information and accept their  misconceptions as truth---funny as as the craft is booming and perhaps a little chlorine in the pool of aspiring smiths might be a good thing.  I have taught hundreds of people an intro class over the last 36 years and I have at least 4 who have failed.  My criteria, which are stated at the start of the class, are : 1: You must listen and follow directions. 2: You must be safe around other people with red hot steel. 3: You must be safe around yourself with red hot steel.  Your first piece can be so ugly that showing it to someone provokes projectile vomiting; but if you pass the 3 criteria I will continue to teach you. (and yes I say that!)  36 years 4 failures; 1 lost time accident during clean up and loading (one of the failures)  Had a fellow last class that just passed after he set a hot pair of tongs down and managed to run into the hot end later. (failing a single one of the criteria puts you on the cusp and I get to make the decision if it's go or no go).  Stupid accident and he will NOT be doing that again!)

[Glenn]

Each venue has a different flavor, a different way of doing things, and their own curmudgeons. If you are greeted at the door and welcomed, you have a much better first impression of the venue. Your return greeting should be just as polite and throw in a thank you for good measure. This is true of any venue, anywhere.

The old guys, and curmudgeons are usually the folks with the knowledge and information you seek. What looks to be a hard shell many times are a stall tactic while they see if you are interested in being part of the group and learning. Respect and understanding are the key to dealing with a curmudgeon. Showing them you are willing to take their advice and learn, turns a curmudgeon into a friend quicker than anything you can do. Rub curmudgeons the wrong way and you will get blisters. Show respect and a curmudgeon will, in return, show you the pot holes in the road, and how to avoid them. This is true for any venue, anywhere.

IForgeIron has many of the original members. New folks find the site a comfortable place to sit back and learn, and become regulars.

You can see the posts made where folks pass their knowledge on to others, AND the next generation of members and visitors. You do not see how often folks check the site to read, and keep current.

You do not see is the individual friendships that develop and continue off site. With the internet, folks can be anywhere in the world, and communicate with each other on a regular basis.

To those that visit, or have signed up and become members, thank you. To those that have become regulars to the site, thank you also. To the old dogs, thank you each and every time you help others, and for the knowledge you share. To those that tell others about the site, and spread the word and knowledge of blacksmithing, THANK YOU !!  We very much appreciate your kindness, efforts, and support for the site.

[Frosty]

A little tuneup about showing respect thing. "Brown nosing" isn't appreciated, not by folk who deserve respect anyway. If one of the old farts toss you a little guff, creative returns will get you on the IN list almost instantly. Well with some of the old curmudgeons anyway. We may toss you a little guff but it's either mostly in fun or get you to think about your question.

That's not all the curmudgeons mind you, some of the guys do this professionally, pays the mortgage, college fund for the kids, etc. and they don't have time to play games online. We have members who have world renowned names and spending time to show their work and answer questions is an honor.

If you ask a question be assured it's been asked before, if someone tells you to read an Iforge section or links you, read it. If you're not serious enough to do a little work on your own you're wasting your time and ours. Blacksmithing is hard sweaty dangerous work that intimately involves estimation, close enough and serious finishing. It's not something you're going to learn reading. You may accumulate knowledge but not the craft.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Emower]

I don't disagree with anything you all said. It's true and I respect that. However, I have had several private conversations both on this forum and in "the real world" who have told me they feel the same way I do. I mentioned this site to one guy who was getting into the craft and he said, "yeah, there are a lot of jerks on that site. A lot of good people, but a lot of jerks too, and I don't want to deal with the jerks." I think that is telling. Now if you don't care, great. But if you start asking the question about site traffic and you don't want this place to be an echo chamber there is my perspective.

 I hear what you're saying, and no Thomas, I don't think everyone needs an A. But I do think at a minimum, when someone posts a question, they shouldn't have to analyze if they are going to get belittled for asking. If you don't want to waste your time on it, don't. 

On March 10, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Glenn said:

 New folks find the site a comfortable place to sit back and learn, and become regulars.

This has not been my experience nor 5 other people I know. Now I come back to observe, but I do not participate because I do not want to deal with blisters. Some people are smart enough to build up a callous without blisters. 

[ThomasPowers]

Well we sure get a lot of question like "How High is Up?" and "Not telling you where I am; tell me the closest place to get XYZ?"

Or even "Although WWW stands for the WORLD WIDE WEB I assume everything here *must* be American!"

Generally I expect people to think out their questions; I taught my kids and am teaching my grandkids to do so. Having decades of experience on international projects and international field support I have lost some of my Amerocentric outlook. I try not to think of people who can't take the time to post a decently thought out question; but expect people to spend their time answering it as jerks. But I remember RAH's quote on time...

This site has a very nice ignore function and I assume that a number of people have me on their list; which doesn't bother me a bit! OTOH I will be on vacation for about 10 days without internet access so everyone will get a rest from me. (Starting in about 1 week).

[Marc1]

Guide to answer "stupid" questions if you feel so inclined since it is not compulsory

1) where can I find xyz?

answer ... need to tell us where you are. Sarcasm switch is off

 

2) Where can I find an anvil?

Post a link to half a dozen of similar threads. Avoid answers like ... ask your auntie.

 

3) Can I use reo  to make a razor blade? 

List the type of steel required if you know this and perhaps note what could be done with reo ... no not chuck it in the dumpster.

 

4) How long do I have to heat up galvanised pipes in the forge for the galvo to burn off?

Yes, yes I know how we all care for our fellow smith's health, but remember mental health is also a concern. A link to a medical explanation of poisoning with zinc fumes is enough, no need for public flogging.

 

5) How much is this anvil worth? 

Now I confess to be pricked by this question myself more than once particularly when it is posted after purchase (buyers remorse and all that) and answered, "It is worth what you paid for" ... but honestly, it is a perfectly natural question. Links to other threads would be better than my answer. 

Feel free to add to this list, it may be fun if you weigh your words carefully

[Glenn]

If the issue is safety related, the site jumps, yes jumps, into action to warn the member that what they are thinking about doing or about to do can something that can be or is dangerous. Galvanizing and other coatings are a hot button. This is followed by wire brushes or wheels, removing safety guards from tools, and PPE (personal protection equipment). There is NO reason for the member to go to the hospital because of not knowing something dangerous, or a lack of knowledge of the dangers, if we can warn them. We can not stop anyone from doing something dangerous. That is their choice. We can and do provide a warning, but they must act on the warning, and they must live with their decision.

Not answering an open-ended question, or a question without enough details to provide an reasonable answer, is another issue. If we made a reference to a link or thread, and it is not the answer they want, many times they ask the same question again. This shows to many folks that they are not interested in accepting help or can not be bothered doing a bit of research. They sometimes become offended because they have not beed seen fed. 

Posting a thread in a non-related section happens.  The thread is moved to the proper section by the mods or the admins. Now their post is gone and can not be found in the non-related section, where they originally put it. 

You were not called by name the first time you came through the door, but instead ask for your location. The location is so we could better answer your questions. With over 150 world wide countries visiting the site each month, giving you an answer related to one country or location does no good if your half a world away. 

We encourage the membership to post well thought out, and well presented, articles to the site. Those articles are many times used as stickies so they are easy to find and easy to access. The new member must find the sticky on their own or be told to look there and read the material. Many times it is suggested that the new member pack a lunch and a cold drink and read the sections that are of interest to them. A little while reading will answer most of their questions, and build on their data base of knowledge. We then encourage them to ask questions to better understand the subject or to specifically address some of the details. 

We take each report or communication from the membership seriously and give it due consideration. We base our answers on what is best for the site in 6 weeks, in 6 months, or a year from now. A good answer will prove itself with the passage of time. If not, then we need to change the answer and provide new information. Yes, that means exactly that, to go back and change the answer or the decision out for a better one.

Blacksmiths are the best folks in the world. We provide a gathering place where blacksmiths and others that are interested can learn about the craft. We encourage different views and discussions, and everyone learns from the information presented. 

If you have a concern about the site, or a suggestion as to how to make the site better, please contact me directly. PM or email is best. 

[Frosty]

One last thing and I'll be done. If I hurt your feelings, you think I'm too blunt or bother you in some way. Please feel free to set your filters so you don't have to read my posts.

I'm not being snitty, there are a few Iforge members in my filters.

I'm not looking to put anybody down or make them feel bad or less special than they think they should be. If you think I don't care about your feelings you haven't spent enough time with hot iron and dangerous tools. Lastly if doing a little research is too much effort then blacksmithing isn't for you, it's hard work, sweaty hot and dangerous. Knowledge can be given but you have to earn the skills through your own effort.

That isn't my opinion it's just the way real life is. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[John McPherson]

OK, put me high on the list of crusty old curmudgeons. Ignore me? Fine. Ignore the advise of someone who is trying to keep you alive and intact at your own peril.

I really do try to put a lid on the snarky comments. I have totally erased some replies before posting.

Some folks are just not cut out for tasks that require situational awareness, and some can NOT be bothered with safety rules. I have to get after a student about every week for using a grinder without a guard, or not using a full face shield when grinding, or not wearing safety glasses after being warned. Little things that show lack of discipline.

At least once a semester I startle the entire shop when I bellow at some knothead who is trying to get themselves killed by reaching into a 3-phase industrial welder to make an adjustment without turning the power off first. The only thing that will make me lay hands on a student is to snatch them away from the jaws of death.

Some delicate souls just can't take advise without it threatening their self-esteem. Some have a personality disorder, some have brain damage from drugs or years of pit fighting or car wrecks, and some are just. plain. stupid. I have seen it all.

The ones that listen, think, and try to improve make me get up every day and keep on trying to educate. A few make you proud by surpassing you.

[Steve Sells]

I will chime on here as I do know of a few people in the MInn Area that think I am a jerk for banning them and their friends.   They got very upset when another member got banned and refused to listen, so ended up being removed, He was arguing Politics in the chat room, so most never saw that. we all stayed out of it Glenn had it covered.

After being booted from chat by Glenn I saw he had posted a very long diatribe in the forum not only repeating his political views and the argument in the chat room he had just had with Glenn, but also his preconceived rights on this privatively owned web site to do it on. he got banned from site forum as well then. 

After this he comes back under a different account demanding we remove every post he has made, threatened Glenn, myself and some other staff, as well as Glenn's family so the police were called, and this banned member even got the site closed for 2 weeks after filing a report that we were posting his copyrighted material illegally, which was in fact proven false.  others were even stupid enough to post on facebook and other places a fund raising drive to help this person with his legal bills.  I banned no less than 7 of those people myself,  I will not apologize and anyone that feels its ok to threaten us are not welcome here either.  Sadly many of those banned from here over that mess have no clue why they are banned, they have posted it was because they were friends of this other person, refusing to accept any personal responsibility for their own actions butting in when they did not really understand what happened.  let them think that. we have copies of the posts, we are holding then accountable for supporting this person no mastter if they believe he made those threats or not..

generally I help when I can but I admit I am blunt, gruff and crusty when its dangerous or plain lazy.  But I also have to admit some of the suggested ways mentioned here would have been a better approach than some I have used.

[CMS3900]

I, like Emower have been told by several blacksmiths in my area that IFI isn't worth my time. I disagree with them on most points; however I do feel there is room for improvement.

The feeling I am getting from the last couple of posts in this thread is that "crumudgeons" feel people are turned off from the site because: There lazy and don't want to look, they can't take hard criticism, or they want to do something in easy mode when blacksmithing and its various disciplines are by default laborious. These type of people will come to the site regardless and dealing with them should be easy. Just don't answer them. I have been on a mess of technical forums that have the same issue as here. People sign up, post a question that's been beat to death without looking for the answer. If you don't answer them and a day later they post a bunch of new information they got off the forum and have more questions then you know at least they are trying to work the problem out themselves. This alleviates new people searching the forum for the first time only to find a snarky comment under every beaten to death topic, which turns them away from joining.

I operate on forums with the guidelines I was taught as a kid. If I don't have something nice to say, I don't say anything at all.  Everyday I see at least one snarky or sarcastic comment. Heck, in my first thread here I was basically called a idiot without anyone knowing what my skills or abilities were, which I have seen happen again to other folks. I have even warned a few new folks via PM that they were about to get it, and they did. Assumptions have no place on a forum where it is just as easy as asking a constructive question as it is to post something snarky. What's even easier is posting nothing at all.

The second thing I would suggest is loosen up the restrictions for outside links. Myself, and other folks I have spoke with feel IFI acts within it's own microcosm, where any question can be BEST answered by information already on the forums.  I feel sometimes there might be a thread on another forum, or a website, or someplace else on the web that explains the question in a manner the poster feels is better than information currently on IFI. Any technical community thrives through collaboration. A forum in itself is a collaboration of minds. I just ask that IFI could take a greater part in the collaboration of the community as a whole. No other forum I have ever been on has had such strict links policies.

Overall IFI is a great forum, with a wealth of information, great patrons, and decent folks.  I am happy to be able to utilize it, and give back where I can.

[Marc1]

Yes, all interesting answers from each of the author's point of view. All noted.

The issues with students in a workshop environment has no relation to my suggestion of how to answer "stupid" questions. This is not a classroom and most of the time we don't know who the newbie poster really is. May be 60 yo and holding 3 university degree and speak 5 languages.

The stories of banned members is an eye opener and I don't envy your task Steve, wow, keep them away ... but my point if I have one, is that sometimes we (and I include myself if you don't mind) can come across as rude or sarcastic or patronising without meaning it. Simply because we seem to talk among ourselves a lot and most of the time know what makes the other one tick. The new person is ... well ... new.  Just a thought...

Now to my question ... is it safe to use a 5" grinder with a 9" grinder wheel?