Dustin Quade Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 So this is my second attempt at one of these RR Spike axes. I paid attention to the comments from my first one and have gotten to this stage. I upset the spike which gave me a lump of mass to use at the end for joining my 52100 steel bit into the spike. The upsetting also gave me a bit more material around where I wanted the eye. I moved the eye to the back near the head of the spike. So punching and drifting the eye with this style of axe was much more difficult than my first attempt. Because of its location it was hard to get it over my hardy hole for the punching through. My hardy hole is fairly large so as I punched through the whole piece would buckle into the hole but that meant the head would be mainly bending into the piece and jamming on my punch making the removal of it a bit of a pain. But in the end I got a hole punched and to a size I was somewhat happy with. Next I split the end of the spike which had been upset. I then selected my piece of 52100 for the main axe portion. I hammered this into place and then tacked it in place at the top and bottom so it wouldn’t slid around while I got to forge welding. Now here is the part I need advice on. So I got the one side welded up really well (pic 1) nice big pop when the weld set and everything. But as I went in to set the other side (pic 2) my propane started to run out. I did what I could and I heard a small pop when I went to set the weld on this side but I can see that at least the edge is not welded. My question is can I still weld up this other side tonight when I get my propane refilled or is this piece kyboshed now? I'm still really new to forge welding so id appreciate all comers with advice. Also the piece is obviously nowhere near finished so expect more pictures to come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Sometimes yes; sometimes no; I'd try it and try to use superb technique. Is your forge running oxidizing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Quade Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Sometimes yes; sometimes no; I'd try it and try to use superb technique. Is your forge running oxidizing? Lol i always "Try to use superb technique" im just not that good at it sometimes. Is my forge running oxidizing what? The main thing is that there is at least a shot at getting the weld to work so that is what i will attempt to get done tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Forge welding is easier in a reducing atmosphere. An oxidizing atmosphere may have scaled the joint till where it will be very hard to get a weld and you don't have a lot of stock to do a cleanout and reseat. If you are not familiar with oxidizing and reducing in your forge(s) (its a concern for coal as well) There is a gap in your blacksmithing education that is particularly pernicious when bladesmithing is being done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Quade Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Forge welding is easier in a reducing atmosphere. An oxidizing atmosphere may have scaled the joint till where it will be very hard to get a weld and you don't have a lot of stock to do a cleanout and reseat. If you are not familiar with oxidizing and reducing in your forge(s) (its a concern for coal as well) There is a gap in your blacksmithing education that is particularly pernicious when bladesmithing is being done! Well this is the first time i have had an issue with a forge weld like this. I dont know what forge i have and i would hate to have a part of my knowlege base be pernicious I found an old post about these differences between these two forges. And it looks like there is a way to try and figure it out, Frosy posted this "It's been discussed repeatedly scale WILL form on hot steel in open air. PERIOD. A forge with a neutral or reducing atmosphere: gas, coal, charcoal, electric, etc. can NOT form scale there is NO oxygen to oxidize anything. To check, shine up a thin piece of steel and put it in your forge hot and running. If the surface appears clean till it's the same temperature as the forge it is NOT scaling up." But i do have a question. In that post Iis is said that no matter what forge you have scale forms on metal when the piece meets oxygen. So if thats the case then there is scale in that joint whether i have an oxydizing or reducing forge since its in the air now and has been since last night, so doesnt that mean that the joint on my project is scaled up making that forge weld much more difficult no matter what type of forge im running and the question about what forge type i have will only come into play in future projects right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Well do you find that you drown to death every time you take a shower; or do you find that there is a a difference between getting wet and getting drowned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Quade Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Well do you find that you drown to death every time you take a shower; or do you find that there is a a difference between getting wet and getting drowned? So your saying that if i am running a reducing forge the joint will have some scale because i took it out an exposed it to air but its an ammount that can still allow for a forge weld to take, but if im running an oxydzing forge i will have too much scale in that joint to make the forge weld possible now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 No I am saying that you *may* have difficulties due to scaling not that you *will* way too many factors to make 100% statements! (I've seen Billy Merritt forge weld at temps I'd consider to cold to forge at for instance; but I do my welding at much higher temps; cause that works for *me*!) BTW on that original weld did you preheat your anvil/hammer to at least warm to the touch? In winter I've seen things weld one side but a cold anvil removed too much heat to get the other side to weld at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Quade Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Oh man i actually did not preheat the anvil. My teacher had told me to do that when I work in the winter and i totally spaced on it. I will definitly make sure to do that tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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