SJS Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Nope, I haven't given up on you, your doing a good job. I am just a cautious person, especially after having hurt myself with repetitive stress injuries. Like I said I prefer trying to help people to not have to make the same mistakes I have made... The hammer cracks could be the surface essentially case hardened, and the inner core of the hammer was considerably softer than the skin. So the core deformed and the skin cracked. Are you sure of the quality and specs on the steel you used? Did you soak the heat into the head? Did you just quench the faces? (Sometimes that works fine, sometimes you are better off quenching the whole thing and then tempering back the eye hard...) They are a blemish, but won't affect how the hammer works, just repolish it more oftern and keep using it till, it looks worse, stop before it fails of course... ;-) As for using larger hammers, use them as you need to, but try to work in such a way that you need them less... Try to work the larger stock when you have a striker available. Work hot, and reheat often, stay within the ideal forging temps of the steel you are working. A ton of people work well past the low end of the steels actual forging temp, and some guys pull the steel out below the proper temp. Make some smaller tools, set hammers and fullers, that focus your energy in a smaller area to do more work with the power you have available. There are lots of smaller projects that are cool Mark how old are you right now, 14? You have a long life ahead of you, be patient. With the amount your working right now, you will develop the muscles, to increase your hammer weights with time. Right now, you can use your whole body to an extent. Just be very careful about over exherting your back. You can use your legs a bit, and your core some, but your arm is what lifts and guides the hammer. You stack your accerations to get the hammer travelling as fast as possible, not as hard as possible, as fast... Kinda like a golf swing, if you try to muscle it you will always mess it up. Right now with your mass, trying to muscle a heavier hammer is a loosing proposition. Raise the hammer high, pull it down fast, and allow it to whip over at the end of the stroke, accerating over the whole distance. Keep your elbow close to your body line, maintain your loose grip, enough to provide the guidence the hammer needs, but not so much that the vibration feeds back into your arm,,, It is easy to get distracted, even obsessed with the results of the hammer, while you are young and learning it is important to pay attention to your technique. Taking videos of how you work, and look at the ergonomics of what you are doing, think about what you want to work on, what you need to change to do this better. I remember reading that the Japanese have some interesting thoughts on craftmanship. A good craftsman works quickly and sure, but isn't hurried and rushed. Ideally the craftsmans use of the tools is graceful and efficient. Someone who is really good at what they are doing makes it look almost easy, like you could do it too. The other option to increase your capacity in the shop is to build a Hydraulic press and a few power hammers, or atleast a treadle hammer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanternnate Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Hey LBS, I'm a novice blacksmith (your skills are far better than mine), but some general concepts might be helpful when applied to your work. The way you use your body on the downswing isn't really the concern point. It also isn't likely giving you as much benefit as you might think. By keeping the hammer in tight and swinging at the waist you are limiting the distance the hammer travels and the velocity it reaches. Think about you tennis ball analogy. You get up on your toes to give space to bring the ball to speed. People often incorrectly want to think about acceleration as they remember f=ma, but keep in mind that's really the equation of force to get something moving. In the case of a hammer blow we're dealing with the force of stopping something. It's actually about momentum converting to force (force equals the change in momentum over the time to make that change). That's why falling on hard ground hurts more than a mattress. The mattress absorbs you and lengthens the time over which your momentum is reduced thereby lessening the force. That means if you give the hammer more room to get to velocity (even letting gravity help handle that acceleration to velocity) it will do more work for you. By bending at the back what you are doing is giving yourself more muscles to lift the hammer with after the swing. That is where I'd wager you are actually getting some "benefit" but also what is putting you at risk. Your back muscles are designed for stabilizing not for lifting. Joints are also inherently weaker than straight bone, and your back is one big stack of joints. Repeated lifting with your back will do a number on those muscles and joints. The biology and physics of it all says cap out your hammer size at the one you can comfortably lift a good height and swing with your arm. You can likely cheat a little heavier by pulling the hammer in to your body and keeping it close to your core and lifting vertically after the swing. Think about splitting wood. You choke up on the maul and bring it close to make it easier to lift than let it slide out to get a bigger arc and more velocity. You can use your arm as though it is the handle being choked in then slid out. A low cost investment to increase what you can work would be a tripod. Then you can put the camera on that and make your old man come hold the stock so you can swing a big hammer two handed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyiorn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Made my cupping tool today from 1-1/2" axle took about 8-9 heats and a ton of swinging but did it, a little dressing but it will work I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Looks like a pretty good start, but it doesn't look finished... The tool making curriculum teachs you to forge as close to finish as you can. If it were me I would keep forging on that, and give it a bit more cup, forge the edges up a little more, and planish the cup more. You could just take a right angle grinder to it, and smooth out the dings and polish it up, and you would have a decent cupping tool, but it would be better to forge closer to finish, and then polish it good. The better you forge, the easier it is to finish. A few more minutes of forging can save an hour in finishing, and the better the finish on the tool, the better it works. You want the cupping tool to leave a smooth round face on your hammer, as you work the hammer head in the tool. Another suggestion to help reduce finishing time, is to wire brush after each heat before striking, and then again before reheating. You don't want to pound scale into the tool, and on the last heat just keep wire brushing til it is practically cold. Scale is hard on your abrasives. A few flapper discs for your right angle grinder will slick it up pretty quickly, then I like scotchbrite pads or wheels to blend it in a bit, and then I use emery compound on a buffing wheel on a bench grinder to get the final finish. You can use the same tools to get a nice finish on your hammer faces. The other trick you can use is just to soak the tool in strong white vinegar overnight, rinse it real good, and then use a wire wheel on a bend grinder to clean all the scale off. After you get it polished up the way you want it, get it warm and wax it cause it will want to rust when it is so clean.... A scale finish is somewhat rust resistant so a lot of people just leave it all on except the working bit, thats cool too. Sometimes I go overboard;-) My preference is to make tools that show off my skill and dedication... YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyiorn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 SJS, thanks. It is not finished I will be borrowing a tool from a friend to forge the cup more so I will have a few more heats into it and I do agree that nice forgings save tons of finishing time. I didn't mind stopping at this point as I was about out of breath and needed a good rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstucker Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hey lil blacksmith, If you purchase this online course can you watch it as many times as you want? How does it work? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 7:39 PM, Jimmyiorn said: Made my cupping tool today from 1-1/2" axle took about 8-9 heats and a ton of swinging but did it, a little dressing but it will work I think Jimmyiorn- I recommend that you heat it up, for the face flat, and then take a lightish hammer (maybe like a 2lb?) or a large hammer but light blows, and work around the edges. that will create a fish mouth, and a concave that you are looking for. to clean it up i took a 4lb harbor freight hammer, normalized it, and ground a round die on one side. then I used that to planish the inside of the tool. On 3/6/2017 at 11:20 PM, crappiew said: Hey lil blacksmith, If you purchase this online course can you watch it as many times as you want? How does it work? Thanks Crappiew- yes, if you purchase the course you can use it as many times as you would like, you have access to it the hole time, its not just like a one time deal. It starts out with making the first tool in the curriculum, and at the bottom of each video is a comment section where you can ask questions, although the videos are extremely informational and great, and I have never had any questions. after the first tool, it goes to the next tool, were you use the last tool that you made. then it is a bit like a snowballing effect until you have a nice array of tools that can be used to forge a hammer, and rebuild the world as Alec put it! hope this helps answer your question. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstucker Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 a 2.2lb cross pein I forged today. the only other tools i used other than a hand hammer was a hammer drift, and a hammer eye punch. forged the billet from 2" round, everything done with a 6lb hand sledge. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I'm impressed I usually use at least tongs, a forge and an anvil doing stuff like that---they are tools after all! I like the fat crosspeen, I use one a lot for drawing out and most of the ones sold commercially these days are thin and "sharp" and good only for ornamental peening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 On 3/8/2017 at 10:00 PM, littleblacksmith said: to clean it up i took a 4lb harbor freight hammer, normalized it, and ground a round die on one side. then I used that to planish the inside of the tool. That certainly works, and probably your best choice. I did something a bit unusual, myself: I used my rounding hammer as a top fuller and struck it with a wrought iron stonemason's hammer, heavy enough to do the job, but soft enough not to chip the hardened hammer face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 8 hours ago, JHCC said: That certainly works, and probably your best choice. I did something a bit unusual, myself: I used my rounding hammer as a top fuller and struck it with a wrought iron stonemason's hammer, heavy enough to do the job, but soft enough not to chip the hardened hammer face. or you can use the rounding hammer, but use a "spacer, between the top of the hammer, and the sledge. Basically a piece of 3/8" mild steel laid on top. Littleblacksmith 9 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: I'm impressed I usually use at least tongs, a forge and an anvil doing stuff like that---they are tools after all! I like the fat crosspeen, I use one a lot for drawing out and most of the ones sold commercially these days are thin and "sharp" and good only for ornamental peening. yeah, i guess i forgot the tongs anvil, etc.! Thanks! yeah, I really like the fatter peins, much easier to clean up you work after using one cause they don't make as bad of deep narrow marks like the ones sold in the steel. With commercial ones I tend to go ahead and grind the pein back to at least 3/8" though then it is really out of balance! Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Forged a large radius top fuller. Forged from 2" round (imagine forging the billet from that), all done with out a striker except for the last 2 heats which were to isolate the striking end and bit from the cheeks. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstucker Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 thanks! Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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