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2 CWT Massey power hammer foundations started

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I have started digging the hole for my Massey inslide hammer I am going for a two piece foundation so first I am making a concrete lined pit will a separate inerta block that will be on some form of isolation system that I havent decided on yet I have been toying with the idea of using shortened truck leaf springs as these arent a very efficent type of spring or have alot of natural dampening so will be less likely to start bouncing or some kind of captured rubber maybe urethane

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The last two photos are my highly detailed and accurate plans. The first is the hammer drawn out at full size to work out the required hights of everything leaving 1 inch of travel with the tupp touching the anvil. And the second is detail of the ineria block with the hammer mounted up 135 mm so I dont end up like a hunchback with a slipped disc

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The last two photos are my highly detailed and accurate plans. The first is the hammer drawn out at full size to work out the required hights of everything leaving 1 inch of travel with the tupp touching the anvil. And the second is detail of the ineria block with the hammer mounted up 135 mm so I dont end up like a hunchback with a slipped disc. Does any body have any Ideas or input of what I am doing? Cheers Beaver

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You have seen the foundation design info and Massey hammer stuff .pdfs I posted on here a few months ago have you?

The need for isolation of the inertia block in a pit will depend on your situation...the geology and proximity to neighbours and other buildings. The important bit is to isolate from your floor and walls so that your building does not act like a sounding board...think speaker cone.

My 3cwt Alldays inertia block has an air gap all around from the concrete floor and where it nears the building foundation concrete...but is then just in contact with the subsoil. The engineer and geologist who checked the bearing capacity at the bottom of the pit said the vibration would just go down and spread out at around 45˚ given my ground conditions...

May well be worth your while paying a few hundred pounds for a consultant rather than a thousand or two for the more complicated foundation design...

I also have a Fergy 35 (with the Perkins 3 cylinder)...I always fancied a John Deere tractor and trailer like yours though....

Alan

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Thanks Alan

I have been keeping a close eye and spent alot of time looking at every thing I can find on the subject asking any body i can contact even contacted John at massey hammers but its been over nine mths and no more further contact so i just doing the best I can though this is alot more work one good thing is if I want the hammer could be sold with an ineria block this way and im left with a service pit. I have neighbours one house being about 40 meters away and more about 100 plus meters away so thats another. I hope to be pouring my concrete this week doing the boxing today

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Manfred Bredohl had a block in a pit...his was mounted on coil springs I seem to remember. It had such a large gap around it you could climb down into it and service the water pump which sat in a sump in one corner. Electric lights and all.

I would recommend that you still leave an air gap between the pit walls and the shop floor. Just a few mm of polystyrene is enough. Though you could always cut the floor slab afterwards. There may still be some vibration in the pit walls however you spring the inertia block.

Alan

PS Though it looks like you have already found the need for a water pump. Any thoughts about how you will prevent the "cup" from floating up?

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Alan

I intend to have a 20mm gap all the way around the sides and 100mm under the ineria block, My current thought is to use probably conveyor belt because Im cheap and the proper stuff is $2200 so if it dosnt work I can still lift it all out and fit the proper pads. Yes I have found water damit though it only gets about 250 deep and I have got some product that goes between the concrete and ground that forms a moisture proof barrier, The bottom of the pit floor the concrete will be 350mm thick and the sides will be 100mm and lots of reinforcement.This is flying by the seat of my pants so i am taking pics as I go so for better or worse I will put them up Cheers Beaver PS I have looked again for your hammer install stuff and cant find any thing.

 

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Horse stall mats?  They're pretty dense rubber usually made from ground up tires...and pretty cheap and available (at least in the USA).  They come in different thicknesses and you could even stack to get a more shock absorbing base if needed--plus the loads would be spread over the whole area of the block.

Just a thought.

 

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The main problem with rubber pads under either the anvil or the inertia block is that any water finding its way between mat and concrete will smack the concrete and damage it.  Under the anvil of my Alldays I had to seal around with a pourable silicone rubber...which was masked off in order to only attach to the vertical surfaces so it could flex without shearing.   If you stick to the tried and tested wood underneath you do not have this problem...just the problem of the wood compressing or expanding unevenly and the pallets going out of line.

With your slides hammer though which is one piece / self contained I seem to remember, the anvil sealing issue does not arise. On second thoughts maybe it is a seperate anvil...the only time I used one I managed to pop a disc and my thoughts were then focussed on my back's mechanics rather than the hammer's!

How do you envisage lifting your inertia block should the conveyor belt prove bad? I don't think it will, provided you keep it dry...I have it under the 1cwt Alldays on top of the 30mm plate that it is bolted to. The 30mm plate is standing on rubber buffers which together with some chumps of 150mm dia.  round lift the hammer 150mm above the designed height. The conveyor has lasted for twenty odd years...not much used though, the 3cwt can do everything the 1wt can do only faster, so that gets used much more.

Alan

ps check out your fellow country man rawtiron with a PM he may be quite close to you, and has visited the same problems...

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/41941-power-hammer-installation-massey-notes-on-concrete-for-foundations/#comment-429692

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/41930-b-s-massey-clear-space-hammers-brochure-and-specifications/#comment-429544

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/40793-alldays-and-onions-2cwt/?page=2#comment-417633

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/41932-power-hammer-installation-sealing-around-anvils/#comment-429549

 

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Hi Alan and Kozzy

Thanks for that info I have access to mobile 10 ton cranes from some of the local engineering shops that I have worked at in the past for free or little cost which is great, Havent thought about stall matting but I can get lots of conveyor belting but I think I will want thicker belt to save trying to double up thicknesses. My hammer is a two piece one and the anvil still has what looks like Teco shock absorbing matt under it so will use that. I am casting steel into the bottom of the pit for the isolation materail to bear on or for me to use to attach/weld any locating guides for the ineria block to sit on its turned into quite a project but Im comitted now so have to finish it. The last photo is the liner to go into the pit to cast the sides and the first pic is what will be the steel floor cast into the bottom. Cheers Beaver

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You were lucky! The mat under my 3cwt was £500 pounds-ish twenty years ago.

One day all the horror will be over and you will be able to just push the green button and away it will go!

Alan

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With the ability to be able to lift the inertia block out and back in, try whatever that is at hand. Was once told, by a vibration engineer, that strips of matting can often work better at reducing transmission than a one piece mat.

 

When you reinforce the slab at the bottom of your hole, I think you said 350mm. Run two lots of reo, one near the bottom surface and the other near the top surface. Just works a little better than a single centred bit of reo in this application. 

It's ace that you've got the matting for under the anvil, that is a significant factor in having an efficient hammer. I do concur with Alan about sealing around the anvil,  to stop scale etc from getting underneath. That and wedging it into it's concrete recess. Timber wedges are ideal, I only say that because when I lifted my 3cwt I discovered that it had been wedged with the cutoff tapered ends of leaf springs.

Give the concrete a bit of time to ripen before you wedge in the anvil.

I do recommend a sump.....Then you can have a regular home for your sump pump!

Great photos and great progress. I have done it a few times when working for other people and hence using other people's money, excavators and fancy isolation systems. Am doing it for myself and it's not a cheap or easy gig, but like Alan said, the green button day is worth the effort.

 

Justin

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I put oak wedges all around between anvil base and concrete above the silicone sealing ring. And then again between the hammer frame and the anvil.

@ Justin...Ballaarat rings a bell. Lesley and I circumnavigated Australia some years ago...the friends we stayed with in Melbourne lent us their holiday house beside Wombat Hill in Daylesford a few miles up the road, we spent some time wandering around Ballaarat. But the really exciting thing was our first walk in an Australian wood along an old railway line by Daylesford, where we were bounced by our first real live wild Kangaroo! Hardly awake enough to appreciate it though because the possums in the roof space made a din all night....happy days.

Alan

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Thanks guys all coments duelly noted i have spent the last few days working on the boxing, Have to keep thinking about the green button day Its been alot of work so far calling in lots of favors and owing some as well will post more pics soon Cheers Beaver

 

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For Mr Evans,

I am familiar with Daylesford, I'm about halfway between there and Ballaarat.

Sorry I missed you.

Sorry for the nocturnal wildlife disturbing your sleep AND sorry to Bevan for letting some clowns take them to NZ.

Did you have Michael C. from Co. Wicklow do some work with you?

Just to round off the Massey club...... I've got a 35 in the shed too. 

Great progress photos Bevan!

Regards,

Justin 

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I helped Michael with a bench project of his that needed some flares on pipe ends which we set up and did on my 100 tonne horizontal press. I helped with the transport and installation too. Plus some other bits and pieces over the years while they were in Gloucester. I still have an angle grinder of his in a drawer in the workshop...the storage rental for the last ten years is the basis of my pension fund!

We did the trip across the Nullabor from Adelaide and arrived in Perth at 6am on a Monday morning...We were gobsmacked to be greeted by a "Hi Alan! Hi Lesley!" shout down the platform! It was Joe Mazzarol and Charl Nienaber who were doing an official welcome on behalf of BAWA. I had meet Charl a few weeks before in the UK when he finished at Hereford College and he and his family came round to visit for a look at the forge and have a meal...When I asked how on earth they knew we would be on the train...he said well there are only a couple a week so we have met every one for the last three weeks!

Blacksmiths eh? :)

Alan

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Hey small world when it comes to tractors LOL I think there are more possums here in NZ than in Aust used to really enjoy shooting and skinning them when I was a kid and some of my mates used to have lots of traps and made good pocket money selling the pelts. I hope to put concrete in the hole maybe tomorrow finally got the reinforcing finished last night and now the forklift just lifts it. i worked out that there will be just over 11 tons of lift with the surface area of the bottom so I have got almost 5 tons of weight to put in or on the liner to help hold it and I am bolting it down to the floor as well will post more pics soon Cheers Beaver PS hope this goes well or you may hear me swearing in Aust.

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Today I got the concrete poured And its a relief to have it all done as I was worried about the boxing failing or some thing going wrong but its all gone well, Its been about a weeks work to do all the boxing reinforcing and all day today to set it up and do the pour. Another step closer to green button day though that will be a while got to play catchup at work to pay for it all wait for concrete to cure rehash boxing for the inertia block pour that etc etc Phew its beer oclock and it tastes good

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Alan

There was just over 3 cu meters or nine tons, I was going to mix it myself and barrow it in but a builder mate ruined my day about a week ago and told me that I had to have premix for consistancy and I also got a water proofing additive put in the concrete and the pump was to speed it up and get it placed faster, The boxing didnt move at all I was a bit worried that the uplift may break my floor Cheers

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The latest progress for the hammer install is the tee bolts, They have been profile cut from 32mm mild steel and 880 overall length and putting 1 1/8 UNC thread on the end, I was going to put 30mm thread on it but crappy lathe cant do a 3.5mm pitch thread its been a bit of a battle as they at the limit of what will fit in the lathe.  I think I will start a new thread after this as its getting a bit long to scroll to the bottom cheers Beaver

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Wow, that is some installation you have going.

We used to pour the concrete for the footings of diesel generators in a 5' deep pit and had 4" cork under it and a foot of clearance all around tapering up to 1.5' or so. Conceded those were a bit larger than a hammer, usually Ingersoll Rand 7 cyl or Alco. Lots of fun and not much vibration came through. 

Those bolts are nice. How do you secure the nut?

 

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Nice job...of course once you have got the hammer in, you will be able to forge the bolts for the next one!

You have learned of the advantage of tying on a coffee tin to create a concrete free chamber beneath the Tee-slotted plate so you can get the bolts in and out? This chamber should be deep enough in case the Tee lugs ever did shear off so that you can just leave them in there and still get another bolt into place....

Alan

 

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I don't scroll; I click on the round dot just left of the title on the Unread listing and go to the first post I haven't read in the thread automatically.

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Yes what came first the chicken or the egg or in this case the the tee bolt or the hammer, The tee bolt will have a 5/16 or 8mm thread tapped into the end so I can hold up the tee bolt to put the nut on the end and if required I can use this to hold a locking washer onto the retaining nut. Next part of the project i suppose is the RHS sockets for the tee bolts to go in and make up the boxing for the ineria block, roll on green button day Cheers Beaver

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