BeaverNZ Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have done my very first forging with a power hammer it is a 1045 ball pein hammer for my son its his very first metal working hammer Im doing every thing I can to make sure he is doomed to dirt bikes and things mecanical, the hammer ball end isnt cracked it is a lamination rolled down, Then I put my minion to work cleaning the dirt off the piston of the hammer next picture is me pressing the small end bush in and last is the process of resizing the big end by taking quite alot off the spacers between the bearing shells and using a mandrel the same size as the crank pin with a step up to the size that gives me 0.12mm of clearance or 5 thou that took me ages using bearing blue and a fine flap wheel the hammer runs real nice now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Is that an Oilite or sintered brass little end bush, or have you machined one from solid phosphor bronze? I had not seen the spacer system on the big end shells before...clever those Massey engineers. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Alan Evans said: Is that an Oilite or sintered brass little end bush, or have you machined one from solid phosphor bronze? I had not seen the spacer system on the big end shells before...clever those Massey engineers. Alan Its just a good old phosphor bronze bush and yes this is why I like older machine tool stuff is its made to be easily fixed if you do manage to wear it out in the first place, luckly the crank pin had almost no wear at all and cleaned up nicely with emery tape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Im loving this power hammer made my first tongs, Think Im addicted is there any hope for me or am I doomed to the pages of IFI. I cheated and only drew out half of the reins Im all for doing it the easy way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSlrVPxcrkk&t=2s Here is a video of the hammer running now showing how fine the control of the hammer is, it runs nicely now since the bearing knock has been fixed. If I was doing the inertia block again I think I would make it bigger as the size i made it was the recommended 1200x1200x2000 of concrete which is around 7500 to 8000 Kg and there is quite a bit of shock felt in the inertia block. The timber does a good job of dampening the shock and can only be lightly felt when giving the hammer full Jandle (thats a bit of NZ / Aust slang for flat out). There is almost 19 to 20 tons of concrete and machine sitting here counting the pit lining as well. Cheers Beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Thanks for documenting this. I have enjoyed watching the progress and results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Sounds and looks well. Does the valve not give you a neutral position so you can start it up off load? I doubled the recommended size of the inertia block under my Alldays 3cwt. 3x3x1.5metres but it was direct into the soil. At the other extreme...under the 1cwt I have just a slab of 30mm steel plate, 8no. 150mm chumps of Ø150mm steel feet with Ø150mm rubber buffers and a 175mm slab of reinforced concrete floor. What they both share however is a 50mm air gap to the adjacent floor slab. There is a ledge with a bit of 100 x 6mm stringer lying in it loose to prevent twisted ankles. I hired a diamond floor saw and sliced the gap when I found the walls transmitting the vibration. The main thing that gets transmitted now is the air pulse. I have extremely heavy hinged doors each leaf 3metres high and 1.5metres wide. They are built on a 50mm box section frame with 15mm of birch multi ply either side, the cavity filled with plaster board (dry rock? gypsum?). These doors pulse with the 3cwt hammer cycle! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 9 hours ago, Alan Evans said: Sounds and looks well. Does the valve not give you a neutral position so you can start it up off load? I doubled the recommended size of the inertia block under my Alldays 3cwt. 3x3x1.5metres but it was direct into the soil. At the other extreme...under the 1cwt I have just a slab of 30mm steel plate, 8no. 150mm chumps of Ø150mm steel feet with Ø150mm rubber buffers and a 175mm slab of reinforced concrete floor. What they both share however is a 50mm air gap to the adjacent floor slab. There is a ledge with a bit of 100 x 6mm stringer lying in it loose to prevent twisted ankles. I hired a diamond floor saw and sliced the gap when I found the walls transmitting the vibration. The main thing that gets transmitted now is the air pulse. I have extremely heavy hinged doors each leaf 3metres high and 1.5metres wide. They are built on a 50mm box section frame with 15mm of birch multi ply either side, the cavity filled with plaster board (dry rock? gypsum?). These doors pulse with the 3cwt hammer cycle! Alan Hi Alan Yes the valve does give a neutral but I have got a stop on the foot bar to hold it so the tupp cycles as I find the way the machine has the clamp action between the hold up and cycling a pain. With the hammer this way it gives an action more like a clear space and i have a very heavy industrail power supply so starting current dosnt matter as I get the machine set up better I intend to have a stop that hinges so i can easily hold the foot bar in either position, at the moment i have it held with vise grips. With your doors moving just shows how powerful resonance is. Just for others interest/information the hammer takes about 8.5 Hp to run the motor is a ten Hp and the makers plate says 15 amp at rated load the motor draws 12.5 amps Ive measured it with a clamp meter, The hammer runs slightly faster at 216 bpm instead of 202 as per makers plate Cheers Beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 The power hammer installation is more or less all finished apart from a door in the wall I have got rid of the dodgy wiring and the magic green button is all connected at last. The second photo is some plunder i have aquired from a local sawmill I want to have a goi at making some pattern welded hammers just because they look so cool and last pic is my last set of tongs and they are the best yet, I havent put up any pics of additions to the scrap bin of which there has been plenty, Offerings to the gods of forging. I intend to put up racks along the side and back wall of the hammer to hang my tooling on to keep it all tidy and accessible. My forge that I have been using is a diesel heater burner and a pile of bricks on top of a coal forge that I dont currently use just to cut down on the amount that I have to learn at once. I just need to make and fit the belt guarding, the stop for the foot pedal so I can use my vice grips again and maybe a bit of paint. I found out a few days ago where my hammer oridginally came from in its working life, It was the Invercargill railway work shop back when New Zealand used to make its own equipment But dont get me started on that subject. Cheers Guys for taking interest in my project hope its been of some help to some one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Nice work! Enjoy your hard earn fun ! That hammer is a real beautiful piece of machinery. Bests: Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmaker Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Just wanted to say I enjoyed looking at your progress pictures and looking around your shop. That hammer is BIG! And nice tongs too, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarntagforge Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 What a great thread. Thanks for all the information and sharing from everyone, especially you, BeaverNZ. I have a question, I read it all and I don't think I saw this anywhere. Shouldn't the anvil have wood directly under it? Maybe it does? I tried to see if you wrote you put wood under it but I couldn't find anything. I ask because when reading this book on page 543 and 544, https://ia600205.us.archive.org/24/items/machineryfoundat00crof/machineryfoundat00crof.pdf it seems to me they put wood under the anvils. To my understanding to absorb the impact so the slides don't have to, and that the frame would break otherwise. But then again of course I don't know the answers either way, I'm just asking. I dig you hammer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 The anvil has a materail that looks like Teco mat under it, I didnt supply this as it was already on the underside and I just removed it carefully cleaned the surfaces and reglued it back on with Ados contact glue. The ineria block face that it sits on didnt come up as smooth as i had hoped when I cast it because of air bubles getting trapped so I chisselled some away and made sure the block was level and poured self leveling grout into the recess to the required height. I think the wood you are talking about can be used if it is not a two piece or isolated ineria block like what I have, I have some basic plans that I was sent by Anvil antics and he got them from Alan Evans I can copy those for you if you like Cheers Beaver PS I have just had a look at the archive that you have put up Jarntagforge Wow 716 pages I have saved myself a copy to puruse at my leisure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Omakau Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Hi Beaver. What a great install and thread. I am about to start the same process with and older version (I think) of that hammer. Same anvil system but direct exposed gear drive from the motor. Unfortunately I am renting space and my landlord has been talking of selling so I am going to try to do an - ahem- economical install. I would love to have a look at yours sometime if that's alright. I am in Omakau in Central Otago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Hey there Peter hey no worries if you want to have a look or have a go with it, just PM me and we will go from there. When I saw Omakau in your title I thought Gee that looks like a NZ place name and it is Churr Beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarntagforge Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 4:46 AM, BeaverNZ said: I have some basic plans that I was sent by Anvil antics and he got them from Alan Evans I can copy those for you if you like Cheers Beaver Yeah sure, I would like those plans. You can send them to me at jakob.staffans@gmail.com Thanks a lot. I have a question. There's a similar hammer for sale in Sweden. It's a Bahco and it's identical in design to yours so I guess they perhaps bought a liscence or something and made copies of Massey hammers, those old ones, like the one you have. The one I know of is 550 lb. I was wondering what's the practical difference, or difference in operation or longevity or similar between those old air hammers with in-line rams and the newer cylinder-rams like on newer Masseys or Anyangs? Rectangular rams and cylinder rams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 Hi yes I will undertake to send you the plans 550 lb is 250 ish Kg which is about 2 1/2 times bigger than mine so I would guess thats a 5 CWT massey. The cylinder type rams I am guessing would be a clear space hammer and apparently they hit harder for the same tupp weight than an in slides but i have no experiance with them Give me a few days to send the plans Cheers Beaver PS if you are looking at another hammer, My hammer complete with anvil and nothing else was 3800 Kg so keep that in mind for transport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarntagforge Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thanks, Beaver! If anyone else have any ideas I'd be curious to know more about in-slides power hammers vs clear space hammers. At some point all manufacturers moved away from in slides. Is there some disadvantage to them? One think I'm thinking of is throat height (if that's the term). As in height of the working piece and top tools. Clear space hammers seems like they can fit more stuff. If I were to say for example "I'm going to buy this in-slides hammer for 3000€." Would anyone quickly remark something like "Don't buy that 100 year old technology, buy the newer Bêchés!" ? 250 kg Bahco (this is the potential seller's instagram) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 I have just had a rummage in my filing cabnet and it seems that the inslides are made for operations that need more guidence and they even offered hammers with over length guides for use when forging balls. I would imagine that using tappered faces attached to the tupp or anvil face would put a heavy tipping or turning action that may be controlled better by the slides. Maybe someone who knows more than me guessing might shed some light. oh and that hammer in the picture seems to have the much earlier model control valving which i think was a type of rotatary valve where one like mine has a large spool type. I have just added some pictures that I found from the patent office showing the different types of valve layouts, The documents should be able to be found as i have got pics of the patent numbers though the lense of my phone camera is not good as its all scratched and its all wrtten by lawers explaining how it works and you will need cafeen intraveinously to not fall asleep reading it Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 This is a great thread for the Massey.. Well done.. Just rediscovered your thread.. Love the videos and information.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Here are some pics of the last few modifications I have done to my hammer that greatly improve how it goes for how I use it. The first two are of the foot pedal stop that swings up so its as made and in the down position holds the pedal in a sweet spot so the hammers cycles like a clear space to avoid the clamping action between the tupp being all the way up when not being used and actually hammering. The next photo is an oil catching gutter to stop it slobbering oil onto the drive belts and every where else and drains into a container at the base I may put one around the base of the control spool as alot of oil drips off that as well. the last pic is my version of a tooling clamp thats been done plenty of times by others Cheers beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Are you doing large enough forgings to want a treadle lock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 I did it because I found the clamping action inconveniant when using hand held tooling you can see the range of actions the hammer has as you move the treadle through its range in some of the very first vids on this thread I think, Its not a lock as such it just stops it from fully returning in its travel. I really need to get the belt guarding done before I get the next vist from The OSH safety man as he will have a stroke as he will perceive the hammer to be very dangerous just from its operation let alone unguarded belts etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 I have finally got my power hammer instillation complete apart from painting the motor mount and new guarding Yippie its only taken two years but the winter weather is here and I dont want to get soaked by doing the outside work. I may yet put a rolled flat bar around over the foot pedal yet just to stop any heavy items that get away from pushing the bar down I think that will be the least intrusive meathod of making this safer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Omakau Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Congratulations on getting it finished. Great job! I finished my "economical" install and have been using the Massey for a few weeks. Only about 2 cubic meters of concrete with 150mm of end grain timber under the anvil. Apparently the ground shakes but you certainly don't notice that as the operator. I have been using it for making pattern welded steel and only need one heat for every fold. The force keeps the billet up almost at welding temperature for the weld and drawing out. Very productive but because of the efficiency it doesn't get as much use as my Anderson used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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