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I Forge Iron

Melting HUGE amounts of Brass with impurities.


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I operate a rifle range, have for about 20 years,  and until about a year ago we would leave the brass casing from the ammo on the ground or piling it. I have tens of thousands of pounds of brass, aluminum, and steel casings piled up now. So we decided it was time to begin sorting it, and taking it to the scrap yard, yielding about a dollar a pound for the brass, which 80% of it is. So it has to be sorted out before they will take it.

We have been shoveling the brass into 5 gallon buckets, pouring it on a sorting table, running a magnet through it to remove anything magnetic, removing all rocks (amount of rock ranges from 25% to 0%) by hand, and removing all aluminum by hand; leaving us with buckets of rock, buckets of aluminum, buckets of steel, and sweet, sweet buckets of brass. The 0% rock buckets of brass I can sort 50 pounds in about 30 minutes. But the rockier stuff can take an hour or two for the same weight, and I simply don't have time, and despite the awesome pay, I'd rather never sort another bucket of brass again in my life. Its a terrible, mind numbing, depressing task.

Wondering if there is a way to throw it all in something that can hold 500 pounds of the mixed product, and separate it all for me using heat. 

If you haven't already figured this out, I know nothing about this kind of thing other than different metals have different melting points and that what I am asking for is NOT easy if not impossible.

Is there a way?

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This is quite difficult.  Perhaps you could make use of the shape of a normal rifle cartridge. I have not tried myself but I would assume that a fair number of casings would float in water since they are heavier in the closed end. Perhaps if you dump a bucket of mixed stuff in water, a fair number of the casings would float and could be scooped up with some kind of sieve. 

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Give a few teenagers a holiday job. Not too bad a job if they can get paid to spend time together...provide a sound system and drinks.

Take a sample bucket to the scrap yard see if the reduced rate they offer makes it worthwhile to sell as is. Get them to come and give you a price with them doing the clearing.

Set up a trommel with various mesh dimensions to sort sizes of material. Or simpler version of tilted mesh panels mounted on springs with a motor with an eccentric weight on the spindle for vibration. The screens would at least lose the dust and leave bits larger than the cases which would make it easier to sort by hand.

Invest in a few ground sheets for the brass to land on at the firing points and sweep them up every day in the future. Make every shooter responsible for clearing the firing point at the end of their session....provide buckets.

Alan

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1 hour ago, Alan Evans said:

Set up a trommel with various mesh dimensions to sort sizes of material. Or simpler version of tilted mesh panels mounted on springs with a motor with an eccentric weight on the spindle for vibration.

I would suggest the trommel as the better option of the 2, in a previous job I designed vibrating screens for quarry materials - if you get the eccentricity wrong they are scary dangerous bits of machinery.

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9 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

First ask your scrapdealer if there is a change in price for melted stuff.  Often they drop it as they can't tell what's really in it anymore.

Heat will also let you know if there are any primers that were not completely fired and possibly any misfires as well.

There's no price difference. They will melt it themselves regardless of what I do. And yes, any bullet still live will go off. And there is so much it's near impossible to spot them all.

2 hours ago, gote said:

This is quite difficult.  Perhaps you could make use of the shape of a normal rifle cartridge. I have not tried myself but I would assume that a fair number of casings would float in water since they are heavier in the closed end. Perhaps if you dump a bucket of mixed stuff in water, a fair number of the casings would float and could be scooped up with some kind of sieve. 

Good thought. Hadnt considered that. Maybe a part of a process.

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1 hour ago, RobbieG said:

I would suggest the trommel as the better option of the 2, in a previous job I designed vibrating screens for quarry materials - if you get the eccentricity wrong they are scary dangerous bits of machinery.

I was prompted to make those suggestions because I just happen to have the Community Composting Trommel on the back of the trailer, I have to replace the drive wheel.

This (apparently)  home made vibrating screen I saw on a local building site looked quite effective, but I have only seen it at rest rather than working. Sorts three sizes.

But I actually think employing teenagers the best solution, followed by getting the scrappy to come by and collect the brass unsorted.

Alan

IMG_2923.jpgIMG_2919.jpgIMG_2179 (1).jpgIMG_2180.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, Alan Evans said:

Give a few teenagers a holiday job. Not too bad a job if they can get paid to spend time together...provide a sound system and drinks.

Take a sample bucket to the scrap yard see if the reduced rate they offer makes it worthwhile to sell as is. Get them to come and give you a price with them doing the clearing.

Set up a trommel with various mesh dimensions to sort sizes of material. Or simpler version of tilted mesh panels mounted on springs with a motor with an eccentric weight on the spindle for vibration. The screens would at least lose the dust and leave bits larger than the cases which would make it easier to sort by hand.

Invest in a few ground sheets for the brass to land on at the firing points and sweep them up every day in the future. Make every shooter responsible for clearing the firing point at the end of their session....provide buckets.

Alan

I've hired kids. If you pay them by the hour they get bored and screw around instead of sorting. If I pay them a percentage they do a poor job trying to get out easy and the material gets turned away at the scrapyard. Yard used to let me dump all my material in their bins alone, material kids sorted was still so rocky they now pour buckets out slowly while they inspect. 

I've had various offers from people offering to sort it for 50% of the profit. But that's a lot of money and I'd then have to hope they are honest. It may come to that but if a sharper mind than my own can keep me in the drivers seat, I'd rather be there.

My welder also suggested a trommel. Not sure what the results would be as the shells are various sizes as is the rock. Not sure it's worth the investment.

The long term plan is to concrete the ground below to eliminate the rock.

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If long term is a long way away...short term, if the ground sheet idea is not appropriate, then you could maybe cover the ground with wood chippings which would be readily floated off the shovel full of brass and then reused.

If your sorters get a share of the profit at least it is in their interest to do a good job in order for you (and the sorters) to get the best rate from the yard. You need a few teenage nieces and nephews so at least it is all in the family!

Alan

 

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Considered the idea of putting some simple plywood down over the ground once it's cleaned. But I have about a half mile of firing line that would take a LOT of labor to make it to code and it is a leased operation through a government entity, so its a big pain in the ass to get any improvements to the facilities done and I can't close up shop on regular business days.

What I have done to remove rock smaller than 1/4 inch is put 5 gallons at a time on a large screen and shake the screen while puring water over it all. Got rid of sand and the very fine rock as well as made the job cleaner, but that another step.

Perhaps a trommel would be more appropriate for that side of things. If I could run in all through a trommel in hours instead of the days of work removing the sand would require that may be worth the investment in itself. Something that I could run it through to remove all of the steel would make life considerably easier as well.

I was hoping the primers from rifle cartridges would be made of something a magnet could pick up, but they are brass as well...

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use two shaker screens, one smaller than the brass one larger, then pay x per pound of clean brass (you inspect) and y per pound of clean rock. 

If the brass isn't clean turn it back. Won't take but once or twice. As for paying for rock, it makes you feel better about sorting the really trashy lots. 

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You missed out. A friend was getting $2 a pound for their casings before the bottom dropped out of the scrap markets. they were going through 160,000 rounds a week combined of 9mm, 40mm, 45 acp, and 223. with the rental guns. 

I agree, see what the yard will give you as is, and compare it with the labor involved to sort.

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On September 1, 2016 at 7:38 AM, TomsGotBrassOutHis said:

There's no price difference. They will melt it themselves regardless of what I do. And yes, any bullet still live will go off. And there is so much it's near impossible to spot them all.

Good thought. Hadnt considered that. Maybe a part of a process.

Your scrap yards must be different then the ones around here. The ones near me don't melt anything down themselves, they collect it and the sell it to another company that actually does the melting. They also don't like things that have been obviously melted and for good reason. I had a guy at one yard tell me they had someone bring in a large 'block' of copper that looked as if the guy made it himself so they had to examine it. They cut it into a couple pieces and then called the cops and had him escorted off the property and banned after they discovered the core of the block was several dollars worth of unmelted and partially melted pennies.

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  • 1 month later...

This is something that can be solved with specific gravity. First pass it though a magnetic separator, get rid of the easy stuff first. Then comes the Al casings. A trommel sounds good but a tilted shaker screen is better. The casings are fed into the top through a hopper that spreads it reasonably evenly along the shaker. As the casings move down the shaker screen the lead and unfired rounds roll ahead faster and get trapped by a lip near along the way, the spent casings will be bounced over the lip. The stretched screen will give more under unfired rounds and bullets and they will not bounce as high. Now comes the brass and other casings, a fan under the screen will lift lighter casings off the screen where a horizontal air blast blows them into a different chute and different container.

Sorting by shape and size won't work, too many have been crushed under foot and different calibers  = different size and shape.

You could treat the process like separating gold in an up-welling stream of water. The same basic physics as using an air stream to life them but you wouldn't need a shaker nor slanted screen. Just dump a wheel barrow (or whatever) into the tank and turn on the pump. Have the correct speeds marked and change catch basins when casings stop flowing over the spillway and turn the pump up a notch.

You'll still need a screen in the bottom first for a proper upwelling current or casings will find eddies to get out of the flow. AND lead and unfired rounds aren't going to float unless you REALLY turn up the pump and I don't think the operator is going to want to be close to the "Fountain of Bullets and Unfired Rounds".

Thinking about it just now I realized it will take a little thought to get the rocks out but that will just be one more setting on the pump throttle.

The scrappers may pay you more for washed scrap too. Hmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

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