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Mikey98118

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When and if needed? Isn't a heat reflective coating always a good idea? Yup; but whether you add it right now or "someday"  can be your personal choice, if you have a cast refractory hot face, but dut someday better come soon with a thin seal coating.

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I think all the development going on is with its use as refractory; the reflective coating is pretty straightforward. The latest wrinkle seems to be trying to substitute cerium oxide for zirconium silicate; this is on another thread. I hope they decide to post on this thread when they feel ready.

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4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Is this hard or soft firebrick?

I believe what I have is hard firebrick but I think I’m going to cave in and buy a forge off of eBay for my first one to help get A better understanding of what I want and need in a forge then maybe one day I’ll build my own 

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Welcome aboard Nick, glad to have you. Good choice. Buying a forge may be more money up front but it gets you forging and learning sooner. You have the right idea about learning what you want and need in a forge, you can always build later and never stop forging while you fiddle.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Hello everyone, I've been reading posts from this website for a while and finally decided to make an account to start asking questions. I began forging last summer using a really, really crappy charcoal forge. I really liked forging but I don't like charcoal. As a result, I'm building a new forge that will run on propane. I already have the burner done. It is essentially a 3/4" Reil burner. I am planning to use 1-2" of Kaowool with a refractory liner like Satanite (reinforced by a steel grid) to seal in the fibers and provide a hot face. I'm planning to put a coat of Metrikote over that. The problem I'm encountering is I don't know what I should use to take the heat of where the burner is pointed. Hard fire bricks seem to be quite common for that purpose, but they also reduce forge temperature. I've also considered using sand to take the heat but I imagine that won't help the forge's temperature either. Will satanite alone handle the temperatures? I'm planning to use a 5 gallon compressed air tank or maybe an oval design of similar or slightly larger size for the forge body if that makes any difference.

Any suggestions are welcome, I haven't bought anything other than the burner so the design is completely flexible.

I'm in Houston, TX by the way.

Thank you all for providing advice to all the new blacksmiths out there.

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How many cubic inches will you be heating with that burner?  Do you plan to forge weld in this forge?  What do you plan to forge with it?

Why would you want to melt sand with your burner?

Put you location in your profile or please type it in on every post you make. (one is much easier than the other...)

Have you got in touch with the local ABANA affiliate?  I find that trying out various forge designs *BEFORE* you decide on one to build is a big help...

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Welcome aboard Tevan, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance.

If you cut the ceramic blanket a LITTLE over size compression will hold it in place long enough for the rigidizer to lock it in.  a 1/2" coat of Satanite for the hard inner liner will withstand flame impingement well enough and is easy to patch down the road. Metricote is an excellent kiln wash and couldn't care less about flame impingement. 

NO fire bricks let alone SAND:o in your forge. As you know fire brick is a fuel hog of a liner and fluxes dissolve it. Sand fuses into lousy glass flux also dissolves. B_A_D choices for a forge floor.

Thomas' advice is solid across the board. Before you invest a lot of time and money in building a forge, attend a meeting or two and use a couple of different size, shape, etc. so you have a feel for what you want and how they work. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks for the fast response guys. I am planning to weld in this forge once I am skilled enough. I will be doing mostly knifes to start out with, but I hope to do swords and small custom parts eventually. I've done casting + machining to make parts before, and I'd assume forging + machining is pretty similar.

Frosty, you mentioned rigidizing the ceramic blanket before putting the satanite on. Is that a needed step to make the forge last or does it just make construction easier? I'm trying to keep costs down as much as possible, but if its a needed step, or prolongs forge life, I don't mind giving up the cash for it.

I'll make sure to attend some meetings. Looks like there's a monthly meeting at Armand Bayou (A 20 minute drive for me) done by my local ABANA location. I could learn a lot from more experienced smiths. Best of all, it only costs $20/year to participate. I'd much rather do that than spend $200 on a forge that I don't like.

Thanks for your help.

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I was thinking your planned forge was way too big for swordmaking---you only want to heat what *YOU* can work before it cools off; heating excess leads to grain growth, decarburization and scale losses---basically damaging your steel; not a good thing for swordmaking!

Get to know the local folks and see what they are doing and how they do it.

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No steel wire, fiber, screen. chicken wire, etc., which helps to break down your hot-face refractory. Steel is fine and dandy as an outer shell where it can only become a little lose around the forge ceramics, as it enlarges more than the ceramics can; it is BAD inside of refractory where that same enlargement will only crack the refractory

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I should've guessed, I usually don't see it abbreviated that way. It's a kiln wash to protect the inside of a furnace or kiln from contaminants sticking. It's the last layer painted on the inside surface.

If you haven't already purchased the IT 100 you might be happier ordering Plistex or Matrikote from Wayne. Both are kiln washes but intended for propane forges, they're unaffected by welding flux but hard so they resist mechanical abuse. Both contain a high % of zirconium silicate so they are good IR re radiators. The last but FAR from least they cost maybe 1/3 what ITC 100 does.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I'm aware of the dangers of ceramic fiber insulation. Its one of the major reasons for why I'm building a new aluminum foundry that will be properly sealed. That foundry is a different project though; I'm definitely prioritizing building the forge. I know that rigidizer can seal in the fibers, but since my forge will have a 1/2" layer of satanite covering all inside surfaces, won't that seal in the fibers just as well? 

Also, will satanite stick to the ceiling of the forge without a steel grid for it to hold on to? I'm want to put it on all inside surfaces for safety and longevity, but I don't have any experience with the material so I don't know if that's even possible.

Also, thanks for the recommendation to see the local ABANA. I spend several hours forging with them and learned a lot.  Its nice to have blacksmiths who know what they're doing to tell me how to fix the pieces I inevitably screw up. I'm going to have to ask them where they get their good anvils as well. My anvil is so soft that a missed blow will dent the anvil face by 1/8".

 

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Rigidizing the ceramic blanket also has the benefit of making the blanket stiffer backing for the hard inner liner. This will make the hard liner last longer against mechanical  abuse. YES you're going to abuse the forge liner, that doesn't imply deliberate abuse, the inside of a forge is an abusive environment. I run mine a good 1,000 f. hotter than an aluminum melter.

If you'd like an example of why a rigid backer is a good idea this is a demonstration I saw in a hard facing class that applies well here. Lay a thin hard object, a piece of 1/8" window glass is what we used in hard facing but a fridge or frozen cold Hershey bar works just fine. Lay it on a piece of foam rubber and press  the center with your finger compressing the foam. Next lay a frozen Hershey bar on the table top and push as hard as you like.

A rigid backer makes the hard finish surface stronger and better able to survive compressive force. Of course the forces applied to a loader bucket or drill bit are much greater but the principle is the same and just as valid.

No, it's not a must, the hard liner will encapuslate the fibers but the forge will last you a lot longer if your rigidize the blanket. I speak from personal experience. No foolin its cheap insurance.

Have you posted pics of your anvil and I just don't remember?  That sounds pretty sad. :(

Frosty The Lucky.

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