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SomeGuy

The Metal melter

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I have always wanted an induction forge but I don't know how to build one and I cant afford to buy one because they seem very expensive. I saw this video on youtube, its a modified transformer which is used for heating metal. This guy only used it to heat small bits  of metal but I'm wondering if it can be used to heat larger bars of steel. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

 

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I think it looks dangerous and he said "don't try this at home" I think it would be a bad idea to mess around with stuff like that.  That's my opinion. 

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You can use your honda as a log-skidder too but does that make it a good idea?

As appealing as that guy's stuff sometimes looks, it's generally poor implementation of what was a poor idea in the first place.  And yes, I have watched some of his vids in the past.

Have you checked out the new smaller induction furnaces?  They are a pretty good value.  Sell some forged trinkets and save up :)

 

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Yes, he did need the disclaimer. The guy  also built his own hydrogen generator too.

I just figured maybe he said that to keep people from killing themselves but I'm wondering if there is a safe way to use this, and if so if it would heat larger bars of steel. The design is surely simple enough.

No kozzy I haven't seen anything under $1500 or more. How much do those forges cost?

Why are my messages always running together?

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Well, I will say that we built our own larger system of similar construction for a process we do.  460V input, 2 wraps on the secondary with a calculated output of about 6000 amps @ 1 volt iirc (been a while).  We use it to contact heat stainless steel to basically hot forge a rivet end on during an automated cycle.  From the day we built the danged thing, we have wished we had gone induction.  Now that one can get induction heaters fairly cheaply, the other guys involved just told me to buy one to experiment with. 

The method shown is very poor in terms of control and highly inefficient.

 

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I know that carbon arc has been used and I knew a guy that started forging with tig; but it's a lot more expensive and dangerous than building a simple forge.

Does burning twenty dollar bills have any potential for heating your house: Yes, is it a good idea No.

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K o R stuff is dumb and dangerous and if that is not obvious to you you dont know enough to do any of it anyway

burning off the chemicals from a battery ( dangerous fumes )

melting zinc ( metal fume fever can kill you if you have any other respiratory problem )

looking at the arc ( eye damage )

and much more

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Use ANY of the King of RanDUMB videos as examples of how NOT TO DO ANYTHING. Of course he puts disclaimers in his videos, he's hoping to keep someone from winning everything he owns and ever will own including his soul in court. The potential of that working out for him are about as good as any of his . . . thiings.

Honestly the price of a decent capacity induction forge is less than one summer of lawn mowing after you cover overhead, a mower, fuel, transporting it, etc. Once you have one up and working it will pay for itself in propane in a year or so depending on how much work you do. Selling trinket profit margin goes up as well.

Frosty The Lucky.

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3 hours ago, the iron dwarf said:

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. You know, carbon arc gouging is a welding process which uses carbon arc rods to cut steel. I actually have a small 50 amp welder that is set up for carbon arc gouging. I'm sorry you guys think that is dangerous. Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

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but did you make the power supply yourself for this from a couple of old transformers as shown in the video or use carbons covered in nasty chemicals from batteries, follow and try out K o R ideas if you want and you could get an award like a "darwin".

but it seems you think you know better than people here

 

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No I didn't built it myself, its an old 50 amp welder I obtained a couple years ago.. However, its not uncommon for people to build and modify transformers. ITs not like a transformer is a rocket engine. I never meant for the video to be a step by step guide, but only shared it for the ideas themselves. You can buy carbon rod online. I never suggested opening up batteries. I think buying the rod would be better than buying batteries. I also think you are overacting about the batteries. Its not mercury or uranium. .If you notice I did say I was wondering if there were a safe way to build and use a transformer that was shown in the first video. I wasnt ignoring anyone's safety warnings. I was just wondering. The second video isn't anything scary, its just a carbon arc furnace. I'm sorry if I seemed like I was being unreasonable, but I like to think outside the box a little. I am allowed to think correct? Is this still a free nation?  No crime in that.

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I suppose the ideas are far fetched perhaps. You never know though, and it never hurts to think outside the box a little. If you all wouldn't mind taking a little advice from some guy, please try to be a little more considerate of how you teach things. If you want to be a good teacher try not to be condescending, and try not to expect everyone who comes here to be a physicist. Some guys, like myself are just looking for some basic info.

 

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4 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

I suppose the ideas are far fetched perhaps. You never know though, and it never hurts to think outside the box a little. If you all wouldn't mind taking a little advice from some guy, please try to be a little more considerate of how you teach things. If you want to be a good teacher try not to be condescending, and try not to expect everyone who comes here to be a physicist. Some guys, like myself are just looking for some basic info.

SomeGuy, in the initial post you asked for opinions. Those are our opinions. I don't feel anyone here is trying to keep you from thinking. Or thinking outside of the box. I feel that in general on this forum we don't want to hear about anyone getting hurt doing dangerous stuff that they don't know enough about. I'll say for Me that I don't know enough of what that YouTube guy is playing around with electric wise and it didn't look safe to me for anyone without the electrical knowledge. 

We are not here to put people down but to  share Good information. There is enough risk in blacksmithing already. 

If you are adamant about learning about forging in these ways I just suggest you start reading about induction heaters and other electrical knowledge that can get you going in a safer direction. 

 

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SomeGuy; please remember that this forum is NOT all about you; you may have the background and skills to do dangerous things in a safe(r) manner; HOWEVER the entire world is reading this forum and we generally slant our replies to take in account the 16 year old invincible/immortal lads who have not built up the scar tissue, gotten on first name basis with the A&E staff, have all their fingers and toes, (and eyes!); and learned the hard way that the world is trying it's best to kill us off and it is our duty to make it as difficult as possible for it!   Many of us have decades of "thinking outside of the box" and from those decades comes judgement on good ideas vs not so good ideas.  (I know a massive pile of things that are possible but NOT a good ideas---did you know you can case harden steel with diamonds?  "The Cementation of Iron and Steel", Giolitti describes the experiment and results).  There was a fellow over at Sword Forum International who was doing some fascinating experiments with making his own oddball steel alloys using the thermite process.  He stopped abruptly with a post that he was going blind as his safety equipment was not as good as he thought it was.

In general I do not suggest methods using arcs for heating in open forums; even welding I have a number of friends and acquaintances that have managed to damage themselves and that is a common and well documented process!  Simple forges are easier, cheaper to build and run and MUCH MUCH safer.

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Please remember too that often our more experienced members have been fielding these same types of questions over and over.

 

YouTube has become an amazing asset for people who want to learn...but just because one guy made a video of something, it doesn't mean he's a expert, has any real experience, or has your best interest in mind.

The members of this site work hard to promote safe practices, and that is due to the fact that they actually CARE about what happens to other people. Their opinion of the viability of "KoR"s ideas are not out of animosity, but out of safety concerns.

 

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SomeGuy - back in 1980, I experienced severe skin damage from exposure to ultraviolet after three hours of carbon arc brazing. To reiterate the theme set forth by your Venerable Colleagues:

We 'err' as a habit on the side of safety. 

We take into consideration those seekers whose judgement may not be fully developed, myself as an example, at age 58. I work all night with four to ten fluted razor blade type thingys attached to 5 - 50 pound weights.

Reference above, I am honored to be in the company of those help me keep sharp my sense of safety hypervigilance, as Darwin has his eye on each of us, 24/7.

Blacksmithing tends to take place in a rough neighborhood - the Smithy - and attracts some GNARLY personalities, (gentlemen included)  who BEAT with hammers, the red hot foci of their attention into  SUBMISSION with HAMMERS (sic).

 I am not seeing above the condescension that you reference, so allow me to rectify that. If you want to be handled gently at all times, never burned, cut, crushed or scarred, try the scrapbooking forum down the street.

Otherwise stay here and enjoy the sometimes rough, straightforward knowledgeable crowd.

Robert Taylor

This Poster's views are his own, and may not be representative of the Views of I Forge Iron. rlt

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There are a lot of things to consider some guys don't. If you don't want our opinion don't ask. If you think plain talk is somehow condescending what would you think if we used baby talk to keep from hurting your feelings? Forget what the politically correct say about your ideas and opinions, they do NOT have equal validity with the educated and experienced.

Folk who ask questions just to gain "basic info" then argue with the answers fall into a category labeled, "Troll." Once or twice is just learning how to behave around folk who actually  know what they're doing, repeating such unacceptable behavior will get a poster: ignored, moderated or if they're insistent, banned. We don't feed Trolls.

There are a lot of kids out there who don't know enough to know they don't know anything of value and end up in the hospital or morgue for trying things us old curmudgeonly sorts warn them off of. Unless they're to enamored of their own superior intellect and value of their feelings to pay attention.

Worse is when someone comes along who LIKES bringing up dangerous stunt videos and with "requests for basic info" encourages kids without knowledge or experience to experiment with inescapably stupid DANGEROUS things. Even worse than that the same . . . person actually HAS THE EQUIPMENT TO DO IT SAFELY in his possession but suggests STUPID DANGEROUS home builds rather than just buying some gouging rod and giving it a try. He's the kind of guy who talks a kid into holding the corners of a sheet and jumping off the 4th. floor then takes the stairs himself.

What in the world makes you think I want to help THAT behavior? Frankly I'm finished responding to you and highly encourage my fellow Iforgers to NOT FEED THE TROLL.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Some guy

how many years have you had experience of electronics ( me since 1970 )

designing and building machines ( me since 1986 )

studying several induction heater designs ( me since about 2010 )

forges ( me since about 2004 )

designing and building 40' long trailers for trucks with unique rear steer ( 1976 to 1978 )

modifying, repairing and even building fair ground rides ( 1976 to 2010 )

wrote a book that was translated into 14 languages

and lots more though you obviously know a lot more than I do about most things.

 

there are others here who have more experience than me and I listen to them when they dispense their wisdom but as you know it all you dont have to
 

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Funny I taught a smithing class last night; a couple in their 20's ; he's in the army so I was trying not to damage him as here in the USA you can get court martialed for damaging yourself when the Army owns you!  I teach a lot of folks; but I don't teach everyone.  My basic requirements are: 1 You listen and pay attention to what I am telling you. 2 You are safe around other people with red hot steel. 3: You are safe around yourself with red hot steel.  These 3 get you in the class, not meeting any of them gets an automatic removal from the class and work area. I don't care how bad your smithing is---lots of folks take a lot of practice to get fair not to mention good.  Your first S hook can be so ugly that it invokes spontaneous projectile vomiting in passers by; but if you meet the 3 rules, I will work with you to improve your smithing. 

I don't charge to teach which gives me free reign to boot folks.  I'm sure my methods are not right for everyone; but then I don't force folks to take my class and as I tell them "This is what I do for fun; if it stops being fun for you QUIT and go do something you want to!"  (I once wrote out a "Non Sequitur Blacksmithing Class" with things like:  "Hit it where it's hot! Not where it's not!  If the workpiece is not hot where you want to hit it reposition it in the forge to heat where needed. or "It's very rude to interpose your body when the ground wants to look at your workpiece; get out of it's way and let gravity do it's job!"  When things drop, get out of the way and let them come to rest on the ground and then pick them up with TONGS!)

I am sure some folks have me on their ignore list and that doesn't bother me at all!

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11 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

I suppose the ideas are far fetched perhaps. You never know though, and it never hurts to think outside the box a little. If you all wouldn't mind taking a little advice from some guy, please try to be a little more considerate of how you teach things. If you want to be a good teacher try not to be condescending, and try not to expect everyone who comes here to be a physicist. Some guys, like myself are just looking for some basic info.

 

You asked for help, then complain about how you get it?  Fine.  Your rights to think as you please, just as its my right and responsibility to stop you from  causing more turmoil than you have already. thread closed

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Mod:  I have added SomeGuy's apology to the closed thread.

 

I apologize for how I handled the metal meter thread. I should have handled it differently. I understand this isn't a website for backyard science experiments. I'm sorry about the whole thing. Please forgive my mishandling of it.

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