Anthony Karakas Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I am drifting the eye of my hawks over the hardy hole. By the looks of it, it seems that this is not proper technique. My eyes always come out deformed. What is the proper way to do this? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Is there any significant deformation when you are punching? You are slitting or punching a hole through the material first right? If not learn how to do that correctly first. 90% of that operation takes place over the anvil face (the plug that gets cut out by the punch protects the anvil face if you are punching, and a cutting plate should be used for the last step if you are using a slitting chisel. Once you have a good hole in your stock: Drift hotter (stop and reheat when stock drift bears on becomes cold), drift from both sides (flip stock), ensure slot punch length is closer in size to desired drift (don't need to drift as much), keep your drift surface smooth to reduce friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 how about making a block for your hardy that supports the shape of your stock same as in the Mark Aspery book. I have seen a video of a piece of 3-4" round notched to fit the stock for initial punching and then the guy has 2 parallel pieces of round stock on a plate to support the length of the head while drifting larger. In his video he's making ballpeen hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Karakas Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 Latticino, i only put the stock over the hardy hole when i'm almost all the way through..however, i have not been flipping the piece over and punching from the other side...that is a great idea! Dogsoldat, i will research your suggestion...thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Respectfully you need to learn a bit more about punching holes. As I alluded to earlier, if you are punching (removing plug of metal when you finally make the hole), you should not need to put the stock over the Hardy or Pritchett hole until after the plug has been cut clear. If you are slitting the hole your final cut can be over the hole, but you should be almost through before you go there. I suggest you get some practice punching slots in smaller mild steel stock. Flat stock is the easiest, and can be good to practice the feel of the punch when it bottoms out on the anvil (say 1/4" x 1"). Then I'd graduate to 3/4" square. When you get up to larger dimensions it will certainly help to punch from both sides. In any case you want to limit the amount of effort you need to make to drift the eye open. You can certainly thin the walls of the eye by forging down onto the drift, but driving it open is just asking for tears and cracks, once you get the eye to more reasonable hawk dimensions. From what I can see of the outcome, I think your punch geometry is not optimal for the thickness of stock you are attempting. Check out videos from Mark Aspery on making slot punches or see Brent Bailey's hammer eye slitters if you plan on going that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdriack Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Latticino is giving you great info. Do you own a drill press? I've drifted pieces similar to yours by first drilling a row of 1/8" holes as close together as possible (shorter than the projected hole dia). The drilled holes act as a guide for your punches and drifts and also make the process much easier in my opinion. I also open the hole with the drift initially from both ends of the hole - looks like you hammered the drift straight through from one side only? I'd keep the metal hotter - do shorter drift attempts and reheat more frequently. Also - are you using a tomahawk drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Karakas Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Thanks Tdriack, on my next attempt i will drift it from one side, and then when i am close to the other side, i will flip it and punch from the bottom. The funny thing is, i used to do it that way! My problem is i've taken a few long layoffs from the forge, and i forgot about flipping the piece and punching from the bottom! So simple in hindsight, i am shocked i forgot such basic technique.. I am using the tomahawk mandrel from Kayne & Son. However, i am realizing that a perhaps a mandrel is not a slitter, or a punch...Should i be using one of those first to make the hole? And then later come thru with the mandrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Yes, make the hole with a punch or slitter. Then once you have a hole you drift it to size and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdriack Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I start with a chisel as a cutter (to break through my drilled holes) - from both sides. Then, I use an old 3/8" dia punch hammer that the tip broke off on as a initial punch to flare the hole on each side (it adsorbs heat well and doesn't get stuck) - then move on to the drift. I might also add - be careful of pounding the tomahawk drift into the hardy hole - one time I hammered the drift thru my tomahawk head and wedged it into the hardy hole - hard - I'm betting there have been anvils that have cracked from mistakes like that - lol. Now I have a 4" dia spacer block -- 3" tall -- with a 1" dia hole in the center. I use that on top of my hardy hole now for extra height when drifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 hours ago, tdriack said: I start with a chisel as a cutter (to break through my drilled holes) - from both sides. Then, I use an old 3/8" dia punch hammer that the tip broke off on as a initial punch to flare the hole on each side (it adsorbs heat well and doesn't get stuck) - then move on to the drift. I might also add - be careful of pounding the tomahawk drift into the hardy hole - one time I hammered the drift thru my tomahawk head and wedged it into the hardy hole - hard - I'm betting there have been anvils that have cracked from mistakes like that - lol. Now I have a 4" dia spacer block -- 3" tall -- with a 1" dia hole in the center. I use that on top of my hardy hole now for extra height when drifting. The disadvantage of drilling holes and then using a chisel is that you are left with a series of folds and potential crack starting points on the side walls of the hole. If you use a flat bottom punch and take it most of the way through, flip the bar and punch out the slug while it is still chilled from contact with the face of the anvil it will sheer clean. You can even splash a bit of water on the slug area if you can't get to it while it is still chilled. If you are drilling because you are worried that you will not keep the hole in the centre line of the bar, learn the technique of quenching the thin side while you are drifting. The hot side does all the stretching then and centres the hole. Holes are best done by hand at or near welding heat. Providing your hole is the same size or smaller than the width of the parent bar you can use a single tool punch and drift, the length of the slot being the same as the final diameter/length of the hole. If the hole you want to make is larger than the parent bar width you will need a slot punch longer than final hole size in order to prevent stretching and weakening the sides too much. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdriack Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Good Info Alan - I've never tried the quench idea. I do drill holes for centering on round bar stock. I see your point on cracks - but, my drill holes are very close together, and by the time I use the chisel to widen enough for a punch to fit - there are no folds that I can see - but I also always have my metal up at welding heat - so maybe that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Karakas Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Thanks for the info Alan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Karakas Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 Just a quick update: i followed everyone's advice and easily punched through on some 7/8" stock. The big difference was using a dedicated punch (instead of the drift) and then flipping the piece over and punching out the pellet. If only i had it centered! Came out a little lopsided, but the lesson has been learned! Big thanks for all your help everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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