Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days, With a cargo of Tyne coal, Road-rails, pig-lead, Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays. Your furring is not salt rime is it Ian? Alan p.s. or even...You're not referring to salt rhyme are you Ian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 or "They have asked for the steel. They shall have it now;Out cutlasses and board!” I have a liking for Kipling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 the joke (?) we had at college... Do you like Kipling? I don't know, I have never kippled. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Could be a salty Rhine like at Rotterdam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 But you have already posted an assaulty rhyme... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Must be Friday. That poem also deals with Battery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Battery? I am positive we are poles apart here...and any way the Rhine doesn't go through Poland...that is some oder river. Or is this just negative thinking? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I tried to resist a post on your conduct which I found shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Watt? Shirly you jest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Don't call me Shirley! (Was it due to my witty sallies?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Watty sillies more like...but maybe its just my surly demeanour coming forth...he slurred. Talking of sallies...I made some railings for Castle Park in Bristol many years ago...at the same time for the same Public Art project Jim Horrobin made a gate for the "Sally Port" which was about the only bit of stonework that remained of the castle. First time I had come across one. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Is there a Sally Sherry as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Strange you should say that. On that Castle Park project I learned that Bristol has a long association with Portugal and Spain since at one time when relations with France soured and wine was no longer available from Bordeaux...they went round the coast a bit further and bought wine from Oporto and Jerez. Because the wine did not travel well with the extra distance they discovered that if it was fortified with a bit of brandy it would survive the journey...killjoys will say this is a myth, but then they would wouldn't they? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7A749 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 On May 16, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Glenn said: My experience was with a professional powder coater. He would sandblast your product, spray the power coating dust on it, then bake it to cure the coating. Like anything there is good and bad. I had enough problems that I went to other products for coating and protection in the outdoors environments. In some cases, the powdercoater or blasting outfit would like you to believe that a piece must be entirely stripped prior to recoating. I had it happen to me when I very first started using powder coat, and was taking everything to a local guy that did sandblasting. He sure had me convinced of that until I started preparing all my own stuff and dealing with the powder coating place directly. I dunno if you were aware of it Glenn, but a lot of power coating can actually be recoated right over the original. Of course, the sandblasting guy doesn't want you to know that you can coat over because he's making money off you. Now, that's not to say that it's a completely foolproof, sure fire thing. Sometimes when you recoat it doesn't turn out perfect, but my experience with it has been overall positive. Prolly 80% of it came out fine, the rest was because of either mistaking paint for Powdercoat (which will always lift when they bake it) or because of the use of harsh chemicals to clean the piece prior to taking it in. I only clean with Mean Green now, which doesn't leave a residue, or break down the original finish of sending something in for recoat. I built about 12 custom gas solenoid controls for a large industrial customer I have. I used prefab Hoffman electrical enclosure boxes I put the holes in for the components I mounted inside them. They all come stock with a gray powder coat finish on them. I simply hit the outsides with 150 grit sandpaper on my palm sander, and sent them in. They came out very nice. I have done boxes for them twice, in two different colors at two different times too. Both instances the finish came out very nice. One other thing as mentioned above that can lead to problems recoating is if any heavy solvents or cleaners have been used on the original powder coating prior to sending it in for recoat. It chemically changes the component of the original finish and will almost always lift when they bake it, or shortly after it cools. I make a lot of the sheet metal panels I use on welding machines I refurbish, and I've spent a lot of time talking to the guy I use about product application and prep. His insight and assistance has saved me collectively thousands of dollars and dozens of hours on the finish work. Sandblasting in most cases provides the best surface for the powder to adhere to, but if working with bare metal, sanding with an orbital is plenty sufficient in most cases. Mill scale presents challenges too, but a LOT of places having big fabricated weldments powder coated will opt to leave the scale on since removing it is very costly. I've done it both ways since I sandblast and metal finish all my own stuff. The catch with leaving the scale on is the powder doesn't always adhere as well as it does to a properly prepared surface. The coating can also chip off and lift if in an outdoor application. I have had some stuff done in a clear powder coat and it came out very nice. I'm planning on doing it on some future projects instead of using automotive acrylic enamel. I rarely paint anything anymore, since when I bring stuff to the powder coater fully prepped and clean, it's very reasonably priced and is almost always cheaper than paint in the grand scheme of things. As was mentioned above, finding a GOOD powder coating outfit is the key to having positive experiences. With a good outfit using quality products, it's almost impossible to beat the value and quality of finish. Glenn, you are the top dude around here, so PLEASE be assured I'm not trying to step on your toes!! I'm just sharing what I've learned from direct experience with powder coating over the last few years. The place I use is run by a father and son who are both extremely nice and they have shared a great deal of their knowledge with me. There's places out there that perpetuate incorrect information to make money, or some out of genuine ignorance. As said in the outset, recoating is never a completely sure fire deal, but most of the time it turns out fine providing the surfaces have been lightly sanded and are properly clean. In my experience, powder coating has proven to be a far superior finish compared to paint and none of the mess or expense on materials and equipment. That's not to say there aren't some excellent epoxy coatings out there, but they're usually expensive and take some skill to apply well. IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Sometimes the issue with outdoor items may be that if one area is in trouble there may be more that do not show yet but will fail soon. (I myself have survived several journey's so fortified---but never driving of course!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 @ 7A749 A couple of points picking up on your comments... I could not afford a 20% failure rate. It is not good enough for my work or for my clients. So I would always go for the best preparation possible to avoid that sort of disaster. I am not going risk to damage my reputation, pay to remove and refinish something because I have saved a few pounds on shot blasting. I understand the items you are recoating are new pieces which have their original powder coating uncompromised apart from your modifications. I think Glenn was referring to old pieces where the powder coating has failed either through age or damage and is peeling off. Alan The only way to travel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7A749 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Yeah, it's never 100% on recoat stuff, but if you want it absolutely right then of course, you start over. The reference made was to recoated items in a general sense. Obviously, if you're doing a high end job for a high end customer, you do not cut corners. That's just common sense and good business. I also stated that the best results are obtained when the piece is sandblasted prior to Powdercoat. I would hold that to be entirely true, except for the exclusion of thin aluminum sheet metal. Unless of course, it is blasted with a very fine grit media at low pressures to avoid warping. It's really just a matter of what you're doing and who it's for. A welding machine, or set of simple security gates is quite different from a one off custom forged piece with a lot of detail and intricacy. Such things the customer is paying for and expects to be delivered. I totally get your point on that. When your name is on the line, it has to be right. Period. Ive sent stuff in on off welding machines 20 years old that was exposed to harsh environments for recoat that came out fine. Also had it look not so hot. The point of my comments were not to create an exhaustive narrative regarding re power coating items, but more so to point out that some individuals will perpetuate information that is simply not correct to put a few more bux in their pockets. That is not the way I do business, but unfortunately there are a lot of ppl out there who do. IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 removed: duplicated information already mentioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Stainless steel is a very large subject You have to read it up. Generally you should aim for steel with very little carbon since welding and presumably forging will form chromium carbides so some of the chromium that would form chromium oxides (which is what protects the steel) is gobbled up and you may get intergranular corrosion. 441 or 440s are probably the best for welded and forged applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 on stainless you could try using a pickling paste to clean the surface after forging or welding to prevent rusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 5 hours ago, the iron dwarf said: on stainless you could try using a pickling paste to clean the surface after forging or welding to prevent rusting I hesitated to mention pickling paste...it is horrible stuff to handle. I think Hydrofluoric Acid (anybody doesn't know, look it up) is the worst thing I have in the workshop. It just eats its way through you. I agree Pickling paste is a very effective scale and contamination remover and provided you can sort the PPE and the environment contamination it can leave a good finish on stainless.This handrail was left from the hammer with a coat of wax initially... but the wax was not re-applied frequently enough to prevent the rust staining, so I pickle paste passivated and re-waxed it on site...took me a day and a bit. The handrail and stanchions were forged from 50mm (2") square 316L. The octagon section handrails taper from 50mm AF to 30mm AF over 3 metres (10') so it has been subjected to a few heatings and bashings. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7A749 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 That's some beautiful work Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 2 hours ago, 7A749 said: That's some beautiful work Alan. Thank you. Hopefully it is an appropriate and useful example for the OP and the thread. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7A749 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 It sure is easy on the eyes whatever the case Mr Evans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmonteIron Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I did a bench for outdoors with clear powder coating. Didn't get it sand blasted. It lasted just over a year and then began to fail miserably. When I first noticed the problems, I tried to touch up the spots but that didn't last. I ended up pulling the bench piece, had it sand blasted to remove the clear, then when with a zinc primer and top coat (all powder coat process once again). It wasn't a case of nicks. I believe there are two problems with going with just a clear: (1) we don't want to sand blast (to preserve the natural look) so there is way less tooth for the paint to grab and there is scale still on the piece, (2) doesn't seem UV stable. All my (significant) outdoor pieces get powder coated but I won't try using clear every again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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