Burners 101

[Mikey98118]

It does stop leaking flow, but not over-pressure. Mensi valves are only rated to 30 PSI.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

22 hours ago, Another FrankenBurner said:

Control freak maybe?

Na... if two nails are good four nails are twice as good, my wife accuses me of over building just about everything.

[Mikey98118]

Actually, I am a control freak, and have made it central in how I work metal. On the other hand, trying to control anything else is just laughable

[Mikey98118]

The water test

The 1/8”  gas tube on some  burners are designed to move back and forth and side to side; then be locked in place with socket set screws. Other burners have more rigid plumbing in their gas assemblies, but can still be adjusted if the need to do so is seen.  

Many people, who are new to judging burner flames, have trouble determining whether or not the burner’s gas orifice is centered and axially parallel to their burner’s mixing tube axis. Several years ago, a few builders decided to end their anxiety on this point by constructing a fitting to connect a burners gas pipe’s threaded end up to a garden hose. The tiny stream emitted through the gas orifice easily shows where the gas stream will be pointed, once the gas hose is reconnected to your burner, and allows the burner to be perfectly adjusted with the water running.

[Mikey98118]

 

A water test cam be done on canister mount burners with the use of a female QCC to 1/4” NPT fitting connected to water hose. You probably won’t find this fitting offered other than on of an adapter hose, or part of a refill kit.

 

A three part kit, which includes the needed female QCC fitting and a 1/4” NPT coupling:is available from Amazon.com for $13.

[Mikey98118]

Y” fittings

With double burners you need a  “Y” fitting on your hose. the first thing you find is that the LPG fitting offered are over priced, and inclined to leak.

Joywayus 5/16" hose barb “Y” fitting (two pack is $11); its barbs are actually 0.289”; this makes it easier to insert in 5/16" hose, but it makes it unlikely to leak in 1/4” hose;  certain always trumps easy with gas fittings. Available through Amazon.com.

 

Joywayus 5/16" hose barb “Y” fitting with ball valves ($10.39); finally a “Y” hose fitting with cutoff valves, instead of needle valves, and at about one-third the price of the usual propane “Y” fitting. Available through Amazon.com. 

[Mikey98118]

The “Y” fitting with ball valves is probably designed for use with low press pressure RV propane systems, so make sure to use a variable pressure regulator between the refillable fuel cylinder and its valves, to keep hose pressure at 30 P.S.I. or less; available through Amazon.com. 

[Mikey98118]

The “Y” fitting with ball valves have barb diameters of  0.3125”, so it really is for 5/16” hose.

[Mikey98118]

So, why all this information about "Y" fittings and needle valves? Aren't multiple small burners efficient enough already? Broadly speaking, yes. Specifically; no. If you trade in your Cadillac for a VW are you going to go farther with less gas? Yes. But, if you drive like a maniac, your milaiage may not be all that much better. Being able to fine tune heating levels in your forge to suit various projects will do just as much as more efficient burners to save fuel.

[Mikey98118]

Caution: Many QCC male fittings have tiny gas holes, which may need to be enlarged to provide enough flow to run a torch or heating equipment. Most female QCC fittings have inbuilt flow limiter valves; the exception to this are female fittings sold as part of a fuel transfer system. Overwise, be sure the BTU rating of the valve will allow it to serve your purpose, because this is not a problem that you can simply solve with a drill bit.

[Mikey98118]

So, what kind of water hose fitting is the easiest to repurpose, to hook a garden hose up to a burner's gas pipe? Try the male end of a water hose quick-disconnect.

[Mikey98118]

Acme threads make a comeback

So, I purchased a two canister propane carrier, which was supposed to mate up to a P.O.L. fitting; it didn't. So, I wrote the seller, asking why it didn't match up to the gas hose, with P.O.L. fitting, I bought from them at the same time!!! They never wrote back. I gave them a nasty write up on Amazon.com, and then started looking for a fitting "that could." It turns out that there are brass adapter fittings, with plastic nuts that have internal Acme threads; these will do the job, but you have to be careful to get one that will pass enough propane to run your burner, because most of them have inbuilt flow limiter valves.

onlyfire 5040 QCC1 Acme Nut Propane Gas Fitting Adapter with plastic Acme thread to ¼” male pipe thread with 80,000 BTU flow limiter is available through Amazon.com

[Mikey98118]

Galvanized; is it really Trickery Dee?!?

Galvanize coatings are BAD stuff. That said, what is commonly called galvanize, isn't; it's a hot dipped zinc coating at worst, or only a thin electroplated zinc coating at best? That is worst or best, health-wise. Enough heat will volatilize zinc into fumes--not good, but...

BUT, not anywhere near as bad, short term in a healthy individual as it is taken to be these days. If you already have pneumonia, it could be sever; even fatal. If your healthy, it may give you a sore throat.

So, what about "galvanized" burner parts? Well, only the last three or four inches of the burner is likely to get hot enough to create zinc fumes. Dipping those last few inches on vinegar over night will strip that coating right off the steel.

G

 

[ThomasPowers]

Tallk with some welders about how minor metal fume fever can be.  I had a welder friend whose 14 year old nephew had to drive his work truck home as he tossing his cookies out the window and laid on the grass when he got home so as to not mess up the house after an exposure.   A smithing student of mine was 19 and in good health and ended up spending a week in the hospital from MFF after welding on some galvanized sheet, outside and upwind and thin coating not hot dip!  As he had no medical insurance here in the USA; he ended up declaring bankruptcy at 19.

Yes some folks have "minor" issues; but some young healthy folks do not!  

[Mikey98118]

I don't need to talk to any other weldors about fume fever; I know all about the worst version of it; lead fume poisoning. The fact of the matter is that how bad fume fever is simply depends of what fumes have been breathed in, how big a dose a fella receives, and what shape the guy is in. As for zinc fumes, I take nothing back. It is time that we become a little more careful with our facts, lest readers decide they can't trust them.

I don't enjoy gainsaying the rest of your, but if we keep on over stating our position, someone outside this group is going to call us up short; that will be a lot more uncomfortable.

[ThomasPowers]

The examples I gave are 100% TRUE.  They happened to people I personally know.   If stating the truth is "overstating things" then I refuse to lie!

 

[Mikey98118]

Did I disagree with your examples, or did I state, again, that it depends on who, what, and HOW MUCH? Did I state that this group is over stating the dangers, or did I state that YOU  were? Did you think I was picking on you, are are you just too sensitive?

[ThomasPowers]

Mikey98118, you paraphrased parts of my reply; was I not supposed to consider it directed to me? Please use my name in the future so I can tell what is a reply to a post I just made and what is not. I will try to do likewise. 

(BTW; Welder is a perfectly correct term. I've always considered Weldor an affectation that was pushed by one of the big welding machine companies; but it's considered correct as well---why don't we have paintors; but do have painters.  John?)

You are certainly correct that people vary greatly in susceptibility; however I prefer to warn about worst cases and allow folks to choose their own level  of exposure rather than have them be "surprised".  (My Grandfather spent decades casting tons of lead into sinkers in a small unventilated room in the back of his Bait Stand using an open pot on a gas ring---he's in his mid 90's and still quite spry!  I certainly would not suggest anyone try that!)   My 19 year old student came back and said "You were right" rather than "Why didn't you warn me!"

I'll be heading up to Seatac  early August in my small pickup.  Anything you need shipped up there from the central NM area?

[JHCC]

30 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

I've always considered Weldor an affectation

Better than "weldist".

[ThomasPowers]

John; wouldn't that be a Lady who welds? Ala actor/actress, spinner/spinster, poet/poetess, hammer/hamster?

[Frosty]

Using your examples, Thomas. I'd have to vote for weldster or weldtress. Would we be teaching our young daughter to be a welderette?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

You are certainly correct that people vary greatly in susceptibility; however I prefer to warn about worst cases and allow folks to choose their own level  of exposure rather than have them be "surprised".  (My Grandfather spent decades casting tons of lead into sinkers in a small unventilated room in the back of his Bait Stand using an open pot on a gas ring---he's in his mid 90's and still quite spry!  I certainly would not suggest anyone try that!)   My 19 year old student came back and said "You were right" rather than "Why didn't you warn me!"

Your point is well put, about addressing things to you if they are intended for you. I will go further end make sure that their is no doubt when comments meant for the group in general could be taken personally; they weren't. Furthermore, I lean into safety pretty heavily. I just don't want to see pro safety views to end up with a black eye, if we go too far. I'm surely not the only weldor who has considerable resistance to zinc fumes, and it was only a matter of time before one of the others said something negative. That doesn't mean I think people shouldn't stay as safe as they can; I do think they should.

[ThomasPowers]

To All: We all need to "Live dangerously as safely as possible!"  Our craft has a LOT of possible dangers and we need to navigate through them at our own comfort level.  My particular go/no go on statistical dangers is when they meet or exceed the risks I run driving, something I do almost daily and really quite dangerous involving toxic and explosive fuels and large powerful machinery under "human" control!

[George N. M.]

Another thing to consider is that most of us work alone.  The risk/benefit safety decisions we make only affect us and, secondarily, our families.  Once there is another person involved, a friend, a student, an employee, a supervisor there kicks in a responsibility to and from them.  We have to insure their safety, particularly if we are the more experienced person, and they have to ensure that they don't do anything to endanger themselves or us.

That safety is a group effort was taught to me over 50 years ago when I worked on the repair crew in the Power Department at Inland Steel in E. Chicago, IN.  Everyone had a large "safety tag" with our name and payroll number on it.  When we were working on a large machine such as a big compressor, pump, generator, etc. everyone, down to the lowliest helper (like me), who was working on the machine put their safety tag on the switch or valve which controlled the machine.  Only you could remove your safety tag.  If you went home without removing it you would be called back in to remove it.  Only the "big boss" could remove another person's safety tag.  It was worth your job to violate the safety protocols.

Generally, in my experience, if there is a safety issue such as welding or forging on plated metal the answer is that the benefit is not worth the risk.  Maybe sometimes I am over cautious at times but that is better than being a casual risk taker who does not consider the pluses and minuses.  I haven't gotten to be this old by taking unnecessary risk.  And as we age we want to ensure that we get what time is left to us.  We realize that we are not as bullet proof as we did when we were young.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

Nowadays there is a clip you fasten on the switch that has holes in it and everyone has their own lock that will fit in the holes preventing the clip from being moved and the switch thrown.  I've locked out a BIG Radio Astronomy antenna before.