Time to buy some new files

[Kozzy]

I have a small hodgepodge of older files but it's time to get a proper set of GOOD files rather than settling for what's in the drawer.  I no longer buy the cheapest so am looking for suggestions on a quality brand that isn't a battle to get (like some of the euro made brands).  A quick internet search shows that file making is no longer a USA activity so I thought it better to ask than assume one of the good-old standard brands still made a good product in China/Brazil/Mexico/Timbuktu/wherever.

Due to my rural area, the pickins are pretty slim in the used market and I prefer to buy new anyway.

Suggestions on brands that are still top-notch?  Any file type/size that you consider your "go to" and would suggest making sure I get?

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Got any old fashioned "family run" hardware stores around?  I've sometimes lucked out finding NOS stuff at those and doing my best to clear them out on certain items.

[Kozzy]

23 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Got any old fashioned "family run" hardware stores around?  I've sometimes lucked out finding NOS stuff at those and doing my best to clear them out on certain items.

I'll check but the local old-school place tends to buy his stuff near retail and bring it in at high prices so no one has to run the 40 miles to a real town.  However, he's been there for decades so might have some old stuff in the rafters.  Good idea.

[Foundryman]

When I was looking into getting a semi decent set of files I found a lot of folk recommending bahco so decided to give them a try and I've not been disappointed. Though I can't say I've used a great many different bands of file I know for a fact that where I work buys cheap case hardened ones and you can certainly feel the difference between those and my bahco files at home. They may not be the Rolls Royce of files but they certainly aren't the worst on the market.

Whichever brand you pick up, be sure to grab a file card too so you can keep them in tip top condition.

[Kozzy]

30 minutes ago, Foundryman said:

When I was looking into getting a semi decent set of files I found a lot of folk recommending bahco so decided to give them a try and I've not been disappointed. Though I can't say I've used a great many different bands of file I know for a fact that where I work buys cheap case hardened ones and you can certainly feel the difference between those and my bahco files at home. They may not be the Rolls Royce of files but they certainly aren't the worst on the market.

Whichever brand you pick up, be sure to grab a file card too so you can keep them in tip top condition.

Thanks.  Actually, part of what stirred my choice to buy a new set was the fact that I needed file cards anyway.  Seems kinda backwards because the cards are so cheap but I never got around to buying any--figured I might as well start right from scratch including some better files.  It's implied the Bahco files are made in Europe but a lot could have changed in the few years since that reference was made--they moved saw production to China as well as sockets and some other items a few years ago  

[Foundryman]

I believe they were made in Sweden originally but had production moved to Portugal, that's not to say that they haven't moved it again though!

[CMS3900]

I would give a +1 to PFERD, and Grobet USA.  I spent the coin a while back and bought a PFERD Corinox stainless steel file, and wow. It's like a laser at 70 HRC. It really helps tuning up hardened knife blanks.

Nicholson has gotten a bad rap as cheap terrible files, but I really think It depends on A: what your filing and B: what you expect from the file. I have had decent results with recently purchased Nicholson's, as well as the MSC "Import" brand, filing mostly 1018 and some 4140.  Meanwhile, another machinist friend of mine bought a brand new 16" Nicholson Mill file and folded the teeth over like a brush with the first use trying to de-burr some tool steel.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

On the Nicholsons make sure you are buying the machinist files, not the woodworking, or farrier ones. The machinist files are their best grade, and use the harder alloy. The ones for wood and hooves are made from a different alloy because wood and hooves store not as hard as steel.

CMS. Did your buddy contact Nicholson about his experience? There have also been some counterfeit files with their name out there.

[jumbojak]

On 4/29/2016 at 5:46 PM, CMS3900 said:

I would give a +1 to PFERD, and Grobet USA.  I spent the coin a while back and bought a PFERD Corinox stainless steel file, and wow. It's like a laser at 70 HRC. It really helps tuning up hardened knife blanks.

I can't speak to PFERD but at least some of the Grobet USA files are made in India. I discovered that while looking for some smaller saw files so check the COO before you shell out any cash for their products. The Indian Grobets looked terrible in the photographs I looked at and not exactly cheap either.

 

[CMS3900]

8 hours ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

CMS. Did your buddy contact Nicholson about his experience? There have also been some counterfeit files with their name out there.

Not to my knowledge, I think he just ordered something else. I doubt it was a counterfeit because it came from MSC or McMaster. The only reason I mentioned him was to point out that in my observation the "Nicholson's is made in Mexico therefore it's junk" idea stems from, in large, people using the using the wrong file for the wrong job and then blaming the file. Once you get any metal past the hardness range the file is supposed to cut its performance will be low or non existent, and will probably roll the teeth. That's exactly why your right about only using Nicholson's machinist files for metal work, because their harder. The tool steel the guy in question was de-burring was work hardened, and exceeded the files hardness, if he was using a INOX file, he would of been fine because it's harder then a general machinists file. For wood I would love to have a few Liogier hand stitched rasps. https://youtu.be/gQ09O3d8y9Q

50 minutes ago, jumbojak said:

I can't speak to PFERD but at least some of the Grobet USA files are made in India. I discovered that while looking for some smaller saw files so check the COO before you shell out any cash for their products. The Indian Grobets looked terrible in the photographs I looked at and not exactly cheap either.

I have a few Grobet needle and rifflers and have never had a issue. MSC stocks them and they pass their internal QC. I'd be willing to buy one of the saw files and check it out. It would be interesting to see what the HRC of it is. Which part number were you looking at?

[Matthew D]

I purchased a lot of used Nicholson files on ebay a couple months ago.  I am really happy with them.  Turned some handles on my son's lathe and now I have some nice files.  I can tell they are used, but they still cut really well.  I figured they came from a machine shop since they weren't rusty and seemed fairly new.  Once their files get to a certain point they dispose of them, but they actually have lots of life left in them.  

[SLAG]

Re sharpening Files,

Files can be re sharpened by an acid bath treatment. There should be a thread on I F I  or on, Gasp!!!, Anvilfire. I would have posted some but I must continue cooking a curry for the boss or she may be tempted to kill me. (it is against the law but she may have forgotten).

Acid is dangerous and should be used with care.

Regards to all.

SLAG.

[ianinsa]

Pferd lies in the 'Ooh Yeah'( as does most of their products) category IMHO, pricey but you get bang for your buck.

[bigfootnampa]

Pferd are the best overall value IMO.  I really like the Grobet files too, but pay quite a bit more for them!  Mostly I use used files now.  I sharpen them in a simple vinegar bath and they cut like new ones!  Like two days in vinegar for real dull ones... brushed and flipped twice per day.  Neutralize, rinse, dry and oil immediately!  

[SLAG]

SLAG here again.

Try these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLSkW5BwbM

And

https//www.youtube.com/watch/V=rRaKH7rE2E

You're on your own but it should work.

Regards to all,

SLAG.

 

[Gazz]

There is a company that will sharpen files for short money.  The process is more than a simple acid bath and I did read a thread on the Practical Machinist sight a few years ago about it. 

[SLAG]

What company are you referring to? Also, a reference to the particular thread, and website, that you allude to would very useful to all of us who wish to rehabilitate our files.

I, personally hate to throw tools out when I can refurbish them.

Thanks, for your post and hopefully, your reply.

SLAG.

[Anachronist58]

Try this:

http://www.boggstool.com/

Robert Taylor

[SLAG]

Thanks,

SLAG.

[boisdarc]

I have a file question for you guys. How do you keep your files from getting clogged ? When draw filing or regular filing, I get small flakes that stick in the file that scratch my material. My grand father used to put chalk in his files, I've tried it with no better luck. I keep my files clean with a soft brass brush, no rust. Any suggestions would be appreciated.thanks.

[SLAG]

 

If chalk does not seem to work, try rubbing powdered graphite across the teeth in order to get the powder into the recesses between the teeth. The graphite powder can be bought at an auto supply store. The big box hardware stores probably stock it too. It is used to lubricate the interior of locks, (such as door locks).

Hope that works for you.

SLAG.

[Alan Evans]

I have used Wax (don't use silicone if you are going to be painting or lacquering the piece afterwards) to help with minimising pinning when filing soft stuff like aluminium. Though French chalk/soapstone seems to work well for me for most other materials.

I have never used file cards. I found early on that a bit of aluminium flat or strip of sheet pushed across the file in line with the teeth...held like a wood chisel...was more effective at removing the pins. After a few passes the working edge of the aluminium conforms to the profile of the teeth and lifts out the pins cleanly. I think the aluminium pin remover has an advantage in that it is not burnishing and dulling the file teeth whilst cleaning it. The card wires are fairly hard spring steel, piano wire I presume. I never liked the idea of  brushing hard across hard. I have used mild steel instead of aluminium in the same way, just takes a bit longer to conform to the teeth profile.

My most used and favourite file is a Nicholson 8" flat no 6 cut. They were new old stock in the cheap bin at Suttons the jewellers supply store in the jewellery quarter in Birmingham. I bought one for novelty never having seen such a large fine cut file. You can hardly see the teeth. The following week I went back and bought the remaining ones. That was in 1976 -ish. I still have some, unused, waxed and wrapped in greaseproof paper in the drawer. Fantastic for non ferrous and silverwork when I was doing that full time.

Alan

[Kozzy]

13 hours ago, SLAG said:

 

If chalk does not seem to work, try rubbing powdered graphite across the teeth in order to get the powder into the recesses between the teeth. The graphite powder can be bought at an auto supply store. The big box hardware stores probably stock it too. It is used to lubricate the interior of locks, (such as door locks).

Hope that works for you.

SLAG.

In some very old industrial manuals, you will see a reference to "Plumbago"--it's the old-school word for graphite.  And yes, I have seen some really old literature where plumbago was recommended to be spread on files, especially when filing gummy soft stuff like soft brass IIRC.  Never actually tried it myself. I stick with a file card.

[ThomasPowers]

chalk is less messy than graphite and is mentioned in the old industrial arts manuals I have.

And Alan how hard is aluminum oxide?  I've seen folks scratch their windshield trying to scrape frost off it with an aluminum can before...

[Yuppiejr]

 I lucked into a guy on Cragislist who had been liquidating a ton of new/old stock metal files he'd picked up from a guy who used to supply machine shops... sets of 45 US & European made files (Nichonson, Johnson, AmSwis, Heller, K&F, Simonds, Grobet, etc..)  in a range of sizes from 18" monster bastard files to tiny machinist files ran $50 a set, but he threw in a bunch of freebies with each set like handles, oddball/slightly used files, carrying rolls, etc...  I ended up with 3 sets for myself and picked up another 3 for coworkers.  As a "bulk buyer" bonus he threw in 6 full boxes (36 total) Tome Feteira Second Cut 11" flat files since he was finding nobody else wanted "crappy Portuguese files" that he figured I might be able to put to use for knife blanks.  I've used a number of files from the various sets, but the Tome Feteira's have turned out to be some of the best files I got in the deal.

After giving them a go I'd certainly recommend the TF's, they cut and wear as well as any of the other US made vintage files, but don't seem to command quite the premium price as the better known brands or the now Mexican made Nicholsons.

I've also seen good reports of the files sold by Drills and Cutters https://drillsandcutters.com/files/ - not US or European made, but they seem to have a good reputation among the machinists I've asked for every day work files and are a lot cheaper per unit than the non US made Nicholsons or the mystery maker of the Lowes / Harbor Freight / etc.. generic file sets.  Free shipping over $100 to boot.