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Need to build a shop


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Need to build a shop by the end of the year(currently building a house on 5 acres me and the wife recently purchased) so money is going to be kinda tight.What do yall think is the best route to go .Im trying to keep longevity in the back of my mind.concert slab ,big enough for press,power hammer,etc.

 

Not sure if i should build in phases as money becomes free,or get a metal car port and enclose it,get a steel building diy kit.build a pole barn,etc

 

advice,help.Im sure some of you guys been in this position before.

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Welcome aboard Kenneth glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance.

Is there a rush to build now? It's nice to take enough time to know what you need and do it right. I make my worst mistakes when I'm in a hurry, well second to working angry. Anyway there are a LOT of things to consider. For instance, what are you going to be making in the shop? What scale product? Is it going to be one offs and custom or production runs?  How much experience do you have?

Here are a few other things to think about. What kind of soil are you on? Drainage? Weather? Utilities? Access? Easements? Neighbors? EPA concerns?

I assembled a 30'x40' red iron steel building taking better than a year from clearing the ground to having it mostly closed in. Then an accident mostly took me out of action but it's dry and holds a lot of my stuff. Whatever you build will be too small, mine was getting crowded before I had the roof on. No matter how many power outlets, lights and doors you put in it'll need more.

You said you want a power hammer AND press so you're probably looking at something near the size of my shop. Figure a good $5k for the slab, more if you have poor soils and have to excavate, fill and compact.

Building and doing it right is a no nonsense project, I outsmarted myself too many times to want to do it again. I'd save my pennies and have one put up. But that's me.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I recommend checking local community colleges to find out if they offer non-credit courses on building construction.  Catonsville Community College in Maryland, for example, used to offer a set of courses covering: framing, foundations, roofing, welding, cabinet making, and building code.  I found the courses  to be very useful.  After taking the courses, I was able to frame and raise sixteen foot long wall sections, twelve foot high ...... two wall sections a day, single handed without anybody's assistance.

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It all depends on the climate you live in, size of what you want & also what you can afford.  $$$ is the over riding factor in most cases.  There is your Dream Shop and then your reality Shop in my case quite different in size and scope.  My shop dropped in half when the prices came in and we are on the 3rd yr getting it done.  Did it in steps, excavation, building basic building (Pole Barn Construction) and then the concrete floor as the money became available.  Doubt I will ever have a hammer but wish now I had allowed for it.  Last fall & early winter I did the electrical.  Been waiting for my son to build me a brick forge but came to the conclusion it's isn't coming to pass, in good construction weather he is too busy farming.  So will install a cast forge I bought a number of yrs. ago and has been resting in my barn waiting to get the call to get in the game.  Get a hood built and some young guys to install the chimney through the roof and we will be in business.

It isn't my dream but a lot better than everywhere I've been in the last 60 yrs.  Pole Barn works for me as it matches the other buildings on the farm, zoning was happy it blends in, we have an excellent Pole Barn Builder with super prices in the neighborhood who has now built 3 buildings for us.  It makes my wife happier than anything else and if she is happy I get fed!

Good luck

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My shop is currently 20'x60' built in 2 goes: the first 20x30 was built by a professional builder and cost the proverbial arm and a leg though he was willing to work with me to get a good building at a great price---I was happy to use items that had been sourced for other buildings that then changed or fell through so I have a 20x30 building with 10 foot walls, all steel, an extra truss in it and commercial grade roll up doors that had sat in their shipping crate for 10+ years out behind the lumberyard that had ordered them for someone that never came through.  Concrete slab floor and I assisted in the building to cut the price too.

The second 20x30' was built mainly of scrounged material: all the walls and roof steel was free as hail damaged or overruns from repairing hail damage---overruns on roof, used/hail damage on walls.  Uprights were utility poles---my electrical co-op used to give the used ones away to members.  The trusses were archaic steel ones found on craigslist. I did buy new purlins and SDST metal screws.  The doors on the new section was a used storage place roll-up.  They change them out on a regular basis and another smith had kinfolk who got the old ones and sold me 2 that I picked up on the way home from Quad-State one year...The "mandoor" was one our church replaced so it's a burly commercial steel door...The floor in the new section is sand and gravel from a local arroyo 

Since you are living in a hot damp climate your forge needs to be basically 4 posts and a roof; except that you live in iceland so it needs to be a ground sheltered building; save that you live in areas with a high water table...so you need to deal with the perception of fire possibilities as you live in the desert SW of the USA; so...

(When we re-roofed the house with a steel roof my wife decided to pick a colour to match that of the shop!  Well the shop roof, the shop total has 4 shades of blue in the sheetmetal...)

This is the old "I need a vehicle tell me what I should get?"  without telling us if it needs to cross the ocean, haul gravel, haul people, commute long distances with little fuel use or reach the international space station...

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48 minutes ago, Sanderson Iron said:

Okay, a warm tent.  A yurt

First one I worked in as a kid was a 6'x8 shed roof nailed to a big elm tree behind the livery stables in Vermont.  No sides.  A tad drafty in Jan & Feb.  We made replacement pieces for carriage restorations going on in the main shop, my first job was cranking and getting the fire going.  As we see on this site people work anywhere they have. 

My shop ended up 16' x 20' and it ill be perfect for me.

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If you let us start spending your money, we can build you one heck of a dream shop :)

Seriously, the question is a little too vague to do much more than toss out some general recommendations.  It's really easy to run your budget up for you with all the bells and whistles so you'll need to place some limits on the "wish list"

I'd put some good money into a concrete slab.  If you plan right, it'll work whether you build a small shed, a carport, drop a cargo container or two down or go for a pole building.  A well planned slab can almost be a universal starting place.

Getting power to the site can be costly so it should be an early thought too.

I'd personally plan for a large covered outdoor working area just because I like working outdoors more in the good weather--even if you have a nice pole building or something like that for the indoor stuff.

I've got a hankerin to try the "Safe T Home" from Sukup as a smaller smithy building.  They're 18 feet in diameter and essentially "portable"--what you do is fill those ballast tanks with soil and flowers to hold them down.  Obviously they need a bigger entry and more window openings (doable)..and there are other negatives like one spot inside where sound reflection is focused which would be an ear-splitter.  But to plop down as a small smithin' workshop on a rural property the idea seems interesting and fast.  These are actually designed as emergency housing for disaster areas or "poor man housing" in places that need such a thing.  

144.jpg

 

 

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Looks like a grain bin with a door.  Lots of interesting things have been done with old silos...

One smith used to forge in a Teepee; Other places I've seen were: caves, overhangs, even a floor in the top of a building  where everything had to be carried up and down...Shoot Marksburg has a very nice smithy built into the side of the castle wall---so first you build your castle...

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hey everyone,thanks for the comments  lol I live in the great state of Mississippi ,hot,humid days here

lol,yall are funny,no way XXXXXXXX I can build the shop first.  Im not in a rush to build the shop,but over a course of 6 months,would like it to be complete

Please read and follow the Terms of Service for tthis site, you signed hat you read and will follow them, and we  are actualy serious about what we posted there.

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On a budget? Then you need to think beyond sticks and ply to build. Many of the alternative construction techniques are inexpensive materials, but usually are more labor intensive. So, what do you get for your extra labor? Better insulation, better security,less maintenance, sound deadening, and more.  Check with your local codes first on outbuildings. In some areas if it is only 3 walls no permits are needed, others have max size before permits, etc....

I live in the dry sunny Southwest so all I wanted to do was block the wind. I made walls out of horizontally stacked and welded 55 gallon drums. They are free standing and measure approximately 3' thick, 8' tall, and 10' long. The barrels were free , and they provide tons of storage space inside of them. 4 walls and a roof could be done on the cheap.

Other methods are;

Straw bale (not hay bales) construction with a plaster/adobe/concrete coating. 

Adobe, there is a house down from where I used to work that is being built with adobe that has a petroleum based binder making it weather resistant.

Rammed Earth, I usually see these done with old tires for the walls that are rammed with dirt off of the property, then wired and sprayed with shotcrete.

ICE walls, these look like big LEGO blocks made from Styrofoam and fill led after stacking.

Earth berm, basically a bunker with dirt piled over it. 

Cob , stack and coat

Cargo containers, set two spaced apart then bridge with trusses and roof over them.

Each one of these has its advantages and disadvantages. Very thick walls are excellent insulation, and deaden sound. Rammed Earth can be blended into the surrounding countryside for camouflage reducing the visual awareness for thieves. Most of these do not require painting, and other normal maintenance. Cargo containers are the wham bam method. You could have them dropped off, set, leveled, trussed, and roofed in a day with a good crew. For a roof covering look into old billboard vinyls, they will last for many years out in the weather, even down here in the brutal sun we get. Some billboard companies give the old ones away, others sell them for between $30-$50 each and they are deceptively large and heavy. Watch for the ones that have a date for an event on them, and contact the company who owns that billboard-they usually have their name on the bottom. Those will be the ones that will have the most life since they may have only been up for a month or two. Some down here have been up for 5-7 years, those would have the least amount of life left when removed.

Of course this will depend on what the powers that be allow you to build on your property.

 

 

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well if you are not constrained by a city; a pole barn can be one of the least expensive ways to go; my dirt floor (actually sand and gravel) is a lot easier on my feet and back than the concrete side.  Definitely want maximum ventilation I would go with sliding barn doors on the sides to open it way up when possible; at least a 10' sidewall too.

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Vernacular architecture, what was built in your area over the last couple hundred years? That is what was cheap and worked for the climat, be it two crib barns, Adobe or sod. Think pre rail, as things agent to pot after you could order inappropriate materials from far off. Tho the modern carport (more the RV shelter) are fairly inexpensive solutions. You want the ones built with 2xsquare tubing on 48" centers, as 4' is a standard building module. One can buy 100' roles of Mylar backed R11 from your local steel building supplier, sheets of OSB fit for an interior, ect. And in the summer insulation keeps the hot tin from radiating down on you (90F at 90% is bad enugh but if the tin is radiating 120F down on you...) they are relatively inexpensive as they are stressed skin structures and should pass code (then you can bootleg an interior and what not)

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13 hours ago, kenneth mauldin said:

 

lol,yall are funny,no way XXXXXXXX I can build the shop first.  Im not in a rush to build the shop,but over a course of 6 months,would like it to be complete

 

My wife would poo buffalo if I suggest this too.

 

 Mississippi huh?  You should move because humidity sucks all energy and motivation from a person.

I may have to move all of my equipment home soon, at least I hope I will, and I have been looking at shipping containers and those steel building kits.  These guys are having a clearance sale but you have to provide your e-mail to see the list.  I gave them mine on Monday, and so far have not seen a piece of junk mail from them.

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10 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

well if you are not constrained by a city; a pole barn can be one of the least expensive ways to go; my dirt floor (actually sand and gravel) is a lot easier on my feet and back than the concrete side.  Definitely want maximum ventilation I would go with sliding barn doors on the sides to open it way up when possible; at least a 10' sidewall too.

Very interesting,I was thinking about gravel but my concern was ,how would it feel on my feet and back all day.I have really bad feet

 

10 hours ago, natenaaron said:

My wife would poo buffalo if I suggest this too.

 

 Mississippi huh?  You should move because humidity sucks all energy and motivation from a person.

I may have to move all of my equipment home soon, at least I hope I will, and I have been looking at shipping containers and those steel building kits.  These guys are having a clearance sale but you have to provide your e-mail to see the list.  I gave them mine on Monday, and so far have not seen a piece of junk mail from them.

ah man im so use to the humidity,it doesn't even phase me.all i ever knew,you should feel new orleans,(about a hour from me) the humidity there SUCKS!

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Depends on the "gravel" inch plus crushed will suck, fines or inch minus plus fines will be ok. In areas with river Rock that would be "pea gravel and sand". In truth cement is much harder on you than mother earth. Around hear it's crushed chert and limestone. Strait run inch minus with fines sets up near enugh to cement, lol compact and water. Just the fines (quarter minus) makes a smother looking floor. Honestly a ten foot square of gravel around the forge is avoid idea, then even a wood floor (think decking) is an option. 

 

This is what you can do with a $600 carport

 

 

image.jpeg

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That is super, nice use for it.  Is this yours?  In our area we have an outfit that has been cutting off the top of a granite mtn. for improved approach for an Air Port and the make a "driveway pac" that is 1/4" to 3/8" crushed granite with a lot of granite fines in it.  Get that laid down and pack it with a roller and after some use it's hardens right up almost like concrete but a lot easier on your feet & legs.  I don't use it inside as I like to be able to jack  equip. up to weld or repair undercover.  But my yards and driveway are getting another round of it this summer.    

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I was in Mexico and drove past a blacksmith working in his shop.  No walls, just a roof on poles, dirt floor, an anvil, some old iron and a buzz box.  Made me feel rich.  Do what you can do, and help it grow.  Don't go into debt over a dream, because you'll be paying interest on that dream instead of paying into the dream.  Your business will need all the money it can get, so don't give it to a bank.  

 

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39 minutes ago, Sanderson Iron said:

I was in Mexico and drove past a blacksmith working in his shop.  No walls, just a roof on poles, dirt floor, an anvil, some old iron and a buzz box.  Made me feel rich.  Do what you can do, and help it grow.  Don't go into debt over a dream, because you'll be paying interest on that dream instead of paying into the dream.  Your business will need all the money it can get, so don't give it to a bank.  

 

We're on that page alright.

I like to quote Mike Rowe from "Dirty Jobs" on his take. Well paraphrase him, he said, "I don't follow my passion I take it with me." I heard this and much more in an interview he did on the Dennis Miller radio program. It struck a really powerful chord in me. Take your passion into what you do and the tools become much less important, it's All you.

Frosty The Lucky.

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