Benjaman

490 pound arm and hammer.

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Stuart; as a professional smith, do you believe that someone starting out would  be better off with a 200# anvil and a working Powerhammer or with just a 490 pound anvil?  Not future resale prices, just putting red hot steel through the shop?

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here is my take on that.....excellent question, Thomas!  My first anvil bought by my parents as a high school graduation present, back in 1972, was a pristine 220 pound Peter Wright, along with a rivet forge.  As luck would have it, my second anvil was the 700 lb. Hay Budden seen above.  At THAT time I was serving a 5 year apprenticeship in an industrial shop, back in 1976, and paid 650 dollars for that anvil, which was a LOT of money!  My father loaned me the money, which I paid back GLADLY!  To provide perspective, over the last 40 years, I forged in excess of a million dollars worth of merchandise on that anvil over the thyears.  When I incorporated in 1982, my accountant depreciated that anvil, along with everything else, so in effect, I got the anvil and everything else for FREE.  From my BUSINESS perspective the anvil is a good buy for him, especially if he goes into business later.....

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Benjaman, you are one of the most fortunate persons I've heard of.  At 19 years of age and have $4K burning a hole in your pocket, step back and think for a moment.  I agree with some others in this thread on spreading your purchases.  If you are starting out, you can't realistically forge more on a 490# anvil than you can on a 175# anvil.  Get a good quality anvil in the 150-175-200# range, possibly a power hammer, some other smithing equipment.  You'll have some money left over and a lot more to work with than one monster anvil.  Stuart was alluding to a business perspective.  I doubt that very many 19 year olds are in the position to blacksmith as a business and be successful.  That requires a lot of experience.

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was I "alluding to business" at age 22 when I bought my big anvil......YESSIR I was, I always intended to go into business!

Isn't that the dream, to do this for a living!!!!!!

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Anyone have an idea on how much product  Francis Whitaker forged on his 165 pound anvil? (Or Bill Moran on his anvil?)

How much of your output could not have been done on a smaller anvil Stuart?  Frankly I have pulled more money over my 93# anvil than my 515# anvil; but that's more a function of the fact that the smaller one goes to the Demos where I sell stuff and is the one I've had the longest and not a function of it's intrinsic worth.  I sure love using my big anvil but owning it is not a measure of my self worth.

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Exactly! And what will the new smith be forging (I certainly would not encourage a new smith to be forging load bearing items right off the bat)

I will say a large anvil is a much better place to put your money than in a car...I remember my old college roommate bought a trans-am, new, for cash. 10 years down the road it wasn't worth a lot...

However; I will maintain that, getting started, a person would be  better off with an anvil and a powerhammer over just an anvil.  We will probably just have to agree to disagree.

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Yup and we've given advice based on our experiences and the OP has to make their own decision.   

Anybody else want to speak to their own experiences?

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6 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Exactly! And what will the new smith be forging (I certainly would not encourage a new smith to be forging load bearing items right off the bat)

I will say a large anvil is a much better place to put your money than in a car...I remember my old college roommate bought a trans-am, new, for cash. 10 years down the road it wasn't worth a lot...

However; I will maintain that, getting started, a person would be  better off with an anvil and a powerhammer over just an anvil.  We will probably just have to agree to disagree.

well, we kinda agree......he should get an industrial trip hammer and a shop anvil, and a good sized leg vise........unless he can BARGAIN DOWN the guy with the big anvil,,,,,,if he can squeeze the seller down to 2500, he may be able to purchase a decent hammer for 1500.....

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I'm not 100% new to the game. I just recently sold all my anvils. Long ass story. Got offers I couldn't resist. Like 700$ for a broken at the waste repaired by me eith terrible edges. I have anvil disease. And I've always wanted a big bastard. I know it may be unwise. And it isn't it perfect shape. But I LOVE arm and hammer. And I feel as if I'll never one another one this big 

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You could purchase a brand new 50 lb. tire hammer, a nice 150 lb anvil, a custom rounding hammer and still have cash in your pocket for that kind of money, just something to think about.

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OK; so you're blooded and don't want it just for smithing but to apply against a bad case of Anvil Envy---note this is a chronic disease and there is not any upper limit to it!

I'm out!

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Pretty much Thomas. I more less was just wanting some wiser opinions, and I didn't know if the price seemed right. I definitely do have anvil envy (never thought a chunk of metal would ever attract me so much) but I'll probably be on the hunt for a powder hammer. 

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Buy a big, NEW Fontanini, Nimba, Reflinghaus for $2-3 k, build a power hammer or press for $1k, and a fist full of tongs and hammers with whatever is left over.  You are way past NEW anvil prices on that Arm&Hammer.  

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My dad always said it's only worth what someone will pay. If your just a straight up collector money is secondary, size and logo is 1st, that's probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest arm and hammer found. 

I think it's overpriced at 4g for a user, I'd buy it at $2500 but I'm cheap and I don't like the tourch/stinger marks even though they are small and probably irrelevant. I do suffer from Anvil envy but I completely agree with size being overkill. 

Probably not the right place for this but since it was mentioned, unless the 2nd bidder bought it at the price he bid or we know what that 630 HB actually sold for its hard to use that as the "bar". The 2nd bidder had a chance to buy it now cheaper then his 2nd place bid so his original high bid is out the window, understand I'm not saying he wouldn't of paid if he won, but I know I got caught up in the action and felt relieved when I got outbid. 

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 7:05 PM, Benjaman said:

I'm not 100% new to the game. I just recently sold all my anvils. Long ass story. Got offers I couldn't resist. Like 700$ for a broken at the waste repaired by me eith terrible edges. I have anvil disease. And I've always wanted a big bastard. I know it may be unwise. And it isn't it perfect shape. But I LOVE arm and hammer. And I feel as if I'll never one another one this big 

Easy there! Your making it sound like I got a bad deal! lol just kidding, I'm still glad I bought it and I'm guessing your still not sure you should have sold it!

It's up to you what you do with your money but I wouldn't worry too much about never having another chance at one. I think you might be forgetting how good you are at sniffing out anvils! Either way good luck on what you decide!

Meanwhile I'm gonna get some pics of this HB and the serial number on here and see what we can find out.

 

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Did you buy the big anvil? I picked up a 433lb Arm and Hammer anvil today for under $3.50/lb. 

The big ones are rare but the show up occasionally 

Arm and Hammer2 438.JPG

Arm and Hammer4 438.JPG

12402058_162977120733078_8283396816448487027_o.jpg

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On 3/29/2016 at 4:17 PM, ThomasPowers said:

In Socorro New Mexico?

Thomas, I pass through Socorro about twice a year. We like the family diner and eat there whenever we can. Will be passing through next Thursday-Friday on our way North to a reunion in Trementina which is an abandoned settlement about 60 miles East of Las Vegas that one of my ancestors founded. My second great grandfather also lived there till his death in 1933, and his brother (my second great uncle) was a blacksmith first in the Galinas river valley below Las Vegas then later moved up into Las Vegas. Will be staying in Santa Rosa though, no rooms in Las Vegas due to the big Memorial Day biker run and blues festival.

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Just got back down to the El Paso area where I am working; We went to Fort Collins to attend the graduation of my eldest daughter from Vet school.  It's official----Doctor Powers!  I'll be working memorial day weekend; I traded with a coworker who could spend the weekend with his kids and wife; I'll be in the factory in Mexico---and use the days for when I go up to Santa Fe to teach smithing at our church camp in the mountains near by.

So I will probably not be in Socorro this weekend either; which is a shame I'd have loved to have lunch with y'all at Don Juan's or El Camino.  (I had a breakfast burrito at Sophia's this morning on my way out of town)

My anvil sense was ringing LOUD when we were passing the old steel mills in Pueblo Colorado---but my wife wouldn't pull over...

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Three cheers for Doctor Powers!!!

Congratulations Father Powers!

Frosty The Lucky.

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Fatfudd, lovely A&H!  Can you get a pic of the serial number?  I'd like to add this to the logo stamp listing.

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