Is a $140 hammer really that much better than a $40 hammer?

[phabib]

My blower handle is a cheap Chinese file handle that I drilled through.  No wonder everything I make looks Iike crap.  I need a brass blower handle.

[ausfire]

13 hours ago, Crazy Ivan said:

It's more an appreciation of quality tools and honest work. I would be much more proud of a hand forged hammer, custom made to what my needs are.... Which brings me back to appreciating a quality tool made by a fellow Smith. My 2¢ 

Yep. That's the very reason I am the proud owner of one of Pete's hammers. The only one in Australia I believe.

I make a lot of leaves for various reasons and I have been struggling with a $5 cross pein bought from the thrift shop, complete with a dodgy handle and pieces missing from both ends. I have dressed it as best I could and it works. I did buy a 3lb steel handled cross pein thing from Eastwing but its balance is terrible and it doesn't deserve a place on the rack any more.

Without help, my skills do not extend to hammer making. I could make dozens of saleable tourist items in the time I would spend sweating over a lump of axle steel making a rough hammer.  I made one which is, at best, ordinary, and I have modified a couple, but I really wanted a quality craftsman made piece. So my 'go to' hammer for leaves is Pete's beautifully crafted, mirror finished hammer, which has superb balance and makes life so much easier. I appreciate its quality every day.

[DSW]

21 hours ago, notownkid said:

 My favorite hammer was like Charlotte one of the first I picked up at a Barn Sale years ago.  It felt good that day and for a long time, then one day stupidity caught up  with me and I decided it needed a new handle as the old one was taped and loose.  New handle made it uncomfortable to use and modifying it didn't help.  It now lays on the counter beside the forge unused with its new handle staring at me.  Of course I burned the old handle before being sure the new would work. ( as I said Stupidity caught up and then ran over me) I use another early bought hammer that should have a handle but is isn't getting one.  I have a couple new ones my son has bought recently one with a fiberglass handle which is horrible.  I still buy every hammer I see at sales if cheap and have a pile needing handles to do when I get the chance.

 

 

I think many overlook the value of a good well fitting handle. My 1st blacksmithing class I was using the hammers the class supplied and by lunch I had a nice set of blisters starting even though I swing a hammer just about every day. I finished out that day using the 28 oz framing hammer I use regularly and a 3lb Estwing drilling sledge of mine from the truck. As soon as class ended that day I rushed up to the wholesale supplier I use and grabbed a selection of handles so I could rehandle a nice cross peen I'd picked up at a yard sale. I used that newly handled hammer for the rest of the class with no blisters.

 

The handles on the class hammers were simply the wrong size for my smaller hands. I could tell that almost right away since I use hammers regularly. I've given away I don't know how many different hammers over the years simply because the handles just didn't fit me well.

[notownkid]

I did find a great feeling hammer 2.0lb at a class I was taking and the instructor would not sell it or trade it to  me even offered 2 for 1. 

I worked on a stock for a smallbore target rifle for 2 yrs.  Would shoot it for a few weeks and then sand on it some shoot and sand, when I got it done nobody other than my son could shoot it comfortably.  figure that is what I'm going to do on my handles,I know an old wood working shop that has a 100 yr old duplicating machine I might try when it get one right but presume the different weights might come into play.  We will see.

[SReynolds]

One half of this hobby would be the tools. I enjoy all the tools as much as hammering iron/steel.

Rebuilding old forges and blowers.  Buying and modifying tools. Making my own tools. And I love hammers. All the shapes/weights etc. I enjoy the challenge replacing the old handles with new. Some times modifying the handle grip. The challenge of a tight and reliable fitment of handle to head.

Most of these if not all were cheap and/or free. Modified in more than one way.

A few I pulled off the bench. . . .

[Anachronist58]

When I was a hand finisher, I would make high-speed steel and tungsten carbide "knives" very specific to the job at "hand".  Due to the production nature of the work, the edge, handle, hand, and body, had to be integrated as nearly as possible into a "single" piece of machinery. On many jobs I could not afford to think about how these pieces fit together - they had to perform together on a nearly unconscious level.

I expect nothing less from my hammers - the handle, weight, balance, and striking profile must do what I tell it to as second nature.

Those of us who have been delighted by fine craftsmanship and "intuitive" design, may be on to something.

Robert Taylor

[TwistedCustoms]

This is  almost as loaded a question as, "which is better, Marlin or Browning" One certainly cost more than the other but in skilled hands it's hard to tell the difference. The best answer I can give you is, Probably. Will it make you a better Smith? Maybe. The differences are so subtle and marginal that the average hobbiest won't be able to identify them. After long forging sessions I can tell a difference in reduced joint pain when using a properly heat treated hammer. If your hammer rebounds nicely and your anvil rebounds nicely its less tiresome. 

 If you love this craft the main reason to get a really nice hammer isn't necessarily for the forging benefit it may add, but the pride of ownership of something crafted by human hands, an object that has a soul, a personality.

[JHCC]

10 minutes ago, TwistedCustoms said:

"This is  almost as loaded a question as, 'which is better, Marlin or Browning'...."

"Loaded question"? Ha, ha.

[VaughnT]

Price-wise, you can't honestly compare a $40 hammer to a $400 custom-made hammer.  One is made in a factory, a hundred at a time, by machines, and has the economy of scale working in its favor.  A smith working in his little backyard shop can't make hammers nearly as fast, so the price has to rise accordingly.

If you look at the working parts of both hammers, they're pretty much identical --  nicely shaped faces and a comfortable handle.

When it comes to pride of ownership, I work on both sides of the line.  I have some "antique" hammers that I've picked up over the years and I really love them.  They have a story to them. The patina of age, the mystery of all the things they've seen and done, just makes me enjoy using them.  I love the idea that i'm keeping them from an ignoble end.

I do have a custom made $140 hammer.  It's unbalanced and the handle is far too thin for my tastes.  Looking at the head, it's a great piece of work with wonderful lines.  The nature of the handle, though, makes it very uncomfortable and hard to control.

Soon, I'll replace the handle with a section of sledge hammer handle, and I'm sure she'll be a dream to use.

 

[Francis Trez Cole]

I have many cheep Harbor freight hammers that my students use. It is not the hammer it is the person using it. The expensive hammers you are paying for the person's name not necessarily a better hammer. A lot of the the backyard hammer makers are using 1045 which is just and average steel Not the best in quality. 

I do not buy designer Jeans of shirts. I buy what works. Then there are the clams about the importance of this ones or that ones hammer its hog wash. any hammer face can be dressed to be a rounding hammer. And if you want to loose velocity cut you handle down. 

[Anachronist58]

Yes and I can buy cheap mass produced "blacksmith" iron work - what's the difference? Buying one-off  "designer" creations from individual craftsmen is certainly "hogwash", I don't even know why blacksmiths pretend their stuff is so special?

Certainly, I can take a cheap tool and modify it for my own personal use, and have very satisfactory results. And I am perfectly happy with my photocopy of the Mona Lisa.

But there is a (silly) reason why we appreciate the humanity that is poured into craftsmanship, and why we don't build jet engines with hf tools.

Robert Taylor

Edit: yes, I do use *a few* hf tools at the plant.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Anachronist58
addendum, clarification

[Daswulf]

one thing I'm fairly sure on... I doubt you'll find a diagonal pein hammer for $40.  after using one they are very nice.

[Kevin Olson]

Blacksmithing is funny. Beat up anvils, anvil shaped objects, low rebound anvils are bad. But a soft cheap hammer that's ground right or wrong, in the right persons hand is good. 

[rockstar.esq]

I've noticed a few overlooked points in this discussion.  First off the cheap hammers tend to only come in the most common profiles.  It's rare to find a Swedish, Czech, French, Straight pein, Diagonal pein, or even a rounding hammer at a typical tool store, antique shop, or flea market.

Second, cheap hammers only come in the most common weights.  You're not very likely to find a 6lb rounding hammer for sale at the local tool store.  I suspect most farrier supply stores would laugh at such a request since most rounding hammers are all about long handles and relatively light weight heads. 

Most of the time, anything heavier than about 4 lbs will have a two-handed handle on it.

Most of the cheap hammers out there will be engineer's, cross pein, or ball pein patterns.  Lots of folks dress an engineer pattern to make one side a rounding hammer but that's taking weight off one side of a balanced design. 

There are some cheap(ish) options online for the other patterns but their quality is sometimes questionable.  The few I tried, all needed handle replacements pretty much immediately.  They're definitely softer with less rebound than my Vaughn ball pein for example.

Finally, I think it's pretty tough to find designs with most of the mass right next to the handle unless you're willing to spend more.   

[Francis Trez Cole]

Rock star check out hammer source 4# french pattren hammer $50.00 Rounding hammers $20.00. I have had good luck with there products.

 

Of course just learn to make your own hammer. A 3# hammer is great for metal under 3/4". And if you are working on stock over 3/4" 4# will work just fine. It helps to have a big hammer when punching a hole in 2 1/2" stock. 

 

[SReynolds]

Interesting  in that you mentioned the website name/tool and price.

Just saying.

[ThomasPowers]

Any more interesting than people mention hammers by maker's name?  I don't think he was crossing the line even if I buy all mine at fleamarkets and conferences.

[SReynolds]

I did the very same thing; Brand X found on the such and such web site. I was notified three times and post removed.

We see a big difference between answering posted questions, and a person just randomly posting adverts for other places.  If we were at Thomas Powers shop for a class, and used his gathering to inform others about another class at another place, it may or may not offend Thomas, depending on content one should not be surprised to find he is upset you sent his clients to other places.   Internet hosting costs money and many of these other places have had the opportunity to be apart of IFI  some have paid to advertise here, others refused.  Why would the forums sponsors want to keep paying to help us stay online when members give it away for free to their competition?

[ThomasPowers]

Leave it to the Mods

[SReynolds]

Thusly I said "interesting" and "Just saying" You wouldn't have seen mine. It didn't last very long. But my point was "they" have hammers of the "such and such" style for "x" amount of money.

[Frosty]

It's pretty much been said in enough ways I can't add much other than to say tools are just highly refined dirt it's the human using them that makes anything. Turning AKA rounding hammers are my #1 general forging hammer. I have a Diamond I bought probably 35+ years ago and it's my go to general use hammer, I lost another to a thief in the mid '90s and missed it for a while but cope nicely without it now. My other turning hammer is one I made with hands on direction, help, tools and broken Ford pick up axle in Metalmangler's shop. It's become one of my go to hammers for light and precise work.

It's the smith, not the tool. Nothing wrong with a little bling to your tools and equipment, I paint my tools and equipment. Bling just doesn't make a better smith but it's easy on the eyes and if you can smile when you work it shows in your work. Seriously being happy and or pleased when you work makes a real difference.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Srenolds  it was not my intention to upset any one Rock star stated the he could not find a hammer in a pattern was trying to help him

[SReynolds]

I agree. I did same.

[TechnicusJoe]

Can't this all be concluded very shortly?

Either you think it's worth the money or you don't. Either you feel it makes a difference, or it doesn't (to you).
It's a very personal thing.

Both sides have good points.

Though what I find interesting. If one doesn't want to spend, or say it isn't worth to spend 200USD on a new hammer, or another artifact of an equivalent price range.
If this same person wants to sell his or her (forge) work, does this person sell at Walmart prices? Or does the price go up too?
Because why should you spend 5USD, 15USD or perhaps 25+ USD on a bottle opener for example, while you can buy them very cheaply in stores.
It's only to open bottles.
Like a hammer is "only" to hit with, tongs only grab, a door knocker only knocks and a candle holder only holds candles.
Or let's step up a bit. Say you're ordered to make a forged gate with some fencing, filled with scrolls and finials. Will this not be sold at pre-made and pre-fabricated prices as well?
It's only some bar stock with the function to barricade. It may look "nice". But that's got nothing to do with function.

If the answer is yes to both those two questions, I personally find that very strange.
The forged bottle opener and or gate get a fair (this may differ per person, but higher than Walmart ranges) price, thus the produced qualities by the craftsman or -men have to be recognized.
But at the same time, the works of other craftsmen are denied. "I ain't payin' 200 bucks fo' a hittin' stick!"


Certainly, not everyone has the same budget. A starting hobbyist certainly can do as much with a 200USD hammer as a 5 dollar hammer. 
But so do this person's costumers for everything else he or she makes and sell. And yet, this person sells more expensive works that can be bought much cheaper else where with the exact same function.
Mass produced, no personal touches, like the average Joe and Jaine have down the street.


It's my opinion that I have to recognize and acknowledge other craftsmen's qualities and their blood, sweat and tears invested in whatever they produced.
Of course, some things should be flushed down the toilet, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.
These people should be paid accordingly, because I find it's worth the price and makes all the difference. (just an opinion)

If I deny my fellow craftsmen's qualities, I deny my own as well.

My 2 cents.

 

[Pancho07]

Tenacious, I did not mean to offend anyone by the question. I completely agree that a hand made item should not go for bargain bin or mass fab prices. To me it kind of comes down to having a car with all the bells and whistles and one that doesn't, just because the cheaper one doesn't have power windows and a heated steering wheel doesn't mean that that it won't do the same thing, I don't need power windows or a finger warmer on a hammer.